Suicide clips

[phillip1]

I have always wondered what the deal is, are suicide clips really dangerous or is it hype? I have seen many serious very experienced sidemounters use them and the Armadillo actually comes with them. The people using the suicide clips are obviously very well informed and experienced cave divers and are well aware of the potential risk so I am wondering if the actual danger is hype or real?
I personally do not use them as I find them super easy to clip on but a real hassle to unclip.
This may be a dumb question.

[FW]

They were called that, when used for climbing. If the rope came out, you would fall. They are OK for cave diving, if you pay attention to how the line might get caught in them. Usually they can be turned in toward your body to prevent line trapping. However, bolt snaps are less trouble.

[RN]

I use them on my rig. They are turned in on the bars so it's not likely to take a line in them. It makes clipping the tanks on easier. Unclipping hasn't been a problem for me. I used to think the same thing about the butterfly snaps (aka suicide clips) in regards to catching on line. I've been in some small stuff and haven't had it become an issue. But I also rarely pass under the line anyway.

[Spd 135]

I used them for a year and found, like FW says, bolt snaps are much easier, and for me, I like bigger because they are easier to manipulate underwater.

[Slüdge]

I find suicide clips a lot easier than bolt snaps, but as I'm aware of their dangers, I only use them in certain places.

1. Primary reel. The only time this reel is clipped onto me is in open water. My jump and safety reels have bolt snaps.

2. SPG. I clip it onto my scooter ring, and I can't imagine not being able to unclip from an unintended target.

3. Primary lighthead. I use a suicide clip on the lighthead, and generally loop my index finger through it (with the cord running down my palm) when diving. If I need both hands free, I stick my pinkie into it.

[Tegg]

I used to use bolt snaps for my sidemount tanks. Then dove a place with A LOT of sand. I went to remove my tanks on exit and could not due to the sand trapped in the bolt snaps.

I now dive "suicide" clips and do not fear sand in the same manner that I used to...

[phillip1]

They were called that, when used for climbing. If the rope came out, you would fall. They are OK for cave diving, if you pay attention to how the line might get caught in them. Usually they can be turned in toward your body to prevent line trapping. However, bolt snaps are less trouble.

I did not know that I thought they got that name from the potential line trapping risk. I guess it is really a matter of personal preference than real danger.

[SMB]

I used to use bolt snaps for my sidemount tanks. Then dove a place with A LOT of sand. I went to remove my tanks on exit and could not due to the sand trapped in the bolt snaps.

I now dive "suicide" clips and do not fear sand in the same manner that I used to...

All types of clips whether bolt snaps or swinging gate clips (aka suicide clips) can fail.
I have had gate clips fail closed and open for the same reason your bolt snap did...debris jamming the hinge.
Clips may also fail due to broken springs, corrosion or impact.
All of the above will hinder smooth operation of the clip and may cause it to jam open, closed or somewhere in between.

The important thing is to have a contingency plan to deal with any potential failure during a dive worked out in advance.

Below is a picture of the set up I am currently using for the lower attachment point on my sm tanks

919

The bolt snap can fail either closed or open and there is a very small possibility that the worm gear clamp could fail.

All these potential failures of the lower attachment point on my sm tanks are solved by carring a ss double ender in my pouch.

If the snap bolt fails closed and the tank needs to be removed it can be cut free from the bolt snap by severing the bottom cord loop thus releasing the tank.
The failed bolt snap will remain clipped to the harness d ring and can be removed once back on the surface at the end of the dive.
To reattach the tank when necessary the emergency double ender is then clipped between the lower knot and the band, which helps to shorten the total length and keep the tank close to the body, and the tank is then clipped back off to the harness d ring.

If the bolt snap fails in the open position then it is cut from the lower cord loop so that it cannot line trap you and placed in your pouch.
Again the double ender is used to reattach the tank as above.

Although it can't be seen in the photo above all my sm tanks are set up at least one elastomeric band or piece of inner tube above the ss radiator clamp.
Normally this is used to hold the reg lp hose while carring my sm tanks to and from the water on the surface.
If the ss worm gear clamp should fail then the double ender can be clipped to the elastomeric band which can be pulled down the tank to the ideal position and then clipped off to the harness d ring.

[Tegg]

The important thing is to have a contingency plan to deal with any potential failure during a dive worked out in advance.


I actually always have at least one double-ender with me for that purpose. I can slide one of my bands down and use it as a way to hang the tank for the exit. Worked the time that my bolt snaps failed....

Good advice for others though. I see way to many people in sidemount setups where there is no way to "cut" themselves free from their tanks should their attachment mechanisms fail. Not a good scenario if you ask me...

[novadiver]

Suicide clips got their name from wreck divers doing penetration dives , There has been at least one fatality on the Doria because of wires opening the gate. Causing the diver to be trapped. Suicide clips should never be used in a position were the diver can not free a tangle from lines or hangs ( old fishing nets caught on wrecks) I:E don't use a suicide clip to attach your tool bag to your manifold. A slipknot should be used. In short , as long as you can reach them and untangle them ,there isn't really a problem with using them


Double enders make real nice tank bangers to get somebody's attention .


Have a nice day

[Webmaster]

I actually always have at least one double-ender with me for that purpose. I can slide one of my bands down and use it as a way to hang the tank for the exit. Worked the time that my bolt snaps failed....

Good advice for others though. I see way to many people in sidemount setups where there is no way to "cut" themselves free from their tanks should their attachment mechanisms fail. Not a good scenario if you ask me...

I have all hardware between the tank and the harness. But there are multiple points at which it can be removed if necessary since there are two screw links in addition to the clip in each connection. You do want to exercise the screw links periodically to make sure the gate rotates freely.

And I agree about the bolt snaps, I've had them jam closed with sand more than once. Just from the design I think they're much more susceptible to that than others.

Marbry

[phillip1]

I have also had bolt snaps jam with sand, but i rinse them really good each time and use a bit of WD40 in each now and then. Never thought about carrying an extra double ender, specifically if the bolt snap fails, I always figured I could use one from one of my finger spools should the need be, but it would be better to have an extra one just for that.
I can see how suicide clips it would be infinitely more dangerous in wreck diving with the fishing nets all over the place though.

[newman_diver]

I have also had bolt snaps jam with sand, but i rinse them really good each time and use a bit of WD40 in each now and then. Never thought about carrying an extra double ender, specifically if the bolt snap fails, I always figured I could use one from one of my finger spools should the need be, but it would be better to have an extra one just for that.
I can see how suicide clips it would be infinitely more dangerous in wreck diving with the fishing nets all over the place though.

I was taught to carry a double ender to secure my spare mask in my pocket. It can be used to replace a double ender on a spool if dropped, replace a faulty bolt snap, etc.

[JDostal]

Below is a picture of the set up I am currently using for the lower attachment point on my sm tanks



I kinda like that method. Seems well thought out.

I've been using the tank cam bands on my tanks. I've got a big SS bracket/loop (one of those that has a screw together gate) on the band and then a big clip is on that SS loop.

Your idea would let you have a failure and still dive - I like that.

[ardhill]

I use Suicide clips when cave diving and bolt snaps when wreck diving.

I find suicide clips easier to use and less prone to jam or catch. But as has been said, in wrecks with a lot of loose line, nets, monofilament and wires, I would rather not be wearing line traps.

In cave diving, my suicide clips are all turned into my body.