Sidemount question

[KurtSchrauwen]

Hello everybody

I'm considering investing in a good sidemount system.
The most dives I do is in small overhead environments but I also want to use it in open water. I have looked on the internet and I keep coming back to the same two systems. The "sidemount armadillo" and the "Dive Rite Nomad Sidemount System".

Can anyone give me more info from experience on what is the better system and why ?
Pros and cons of these systems ?
What would you buy and why ?

What do you guys think?

Thanks,
Kurt

(I'm from Belgium, so if you read strange things :yawinkle:)

[willardj]

I think the largest difference is the DR has a lot more lift.

[Wizard]

Have the DR Nomad and love it. I dive 104's for cave and AL 80's for OW. Just add a 5 and 3 lbs weight to the crotch strap and it works great with 80's and never notice the weights there.
I use 3 lb weights on the shoulder straps instead of 2 lb most use.
When you buy it, find someone that has one to take it apart and build it correctly.
If it's not put together right, you will think you threw a way a lot of money real quick.
Once dialed in you'll be happy.

[aainslie]

I no longer use either, but I think they're both great. You can't go wrong with these units.

[*Ag*]

The beauty of the Nomad is that it allows you to sidemount, backmount and do single tank diving, all using just the one rig. Breather divers use it too to SM their bailout bottles.

I use the Nomad and dive 95s in SM and 104s in BM. The 60lb of lift allows me to carry multiple stages comfortably.

[DeepSea]

The beauty of the Nomad is that it allows you to sidemount, backmount and do single tank diving, all using just the one rig. Breather divers use it too to SM their bailout bottles.

I use the Nomad and dive 95s in SM and 104s in BM. The 60lb of lift allows me to carry multiple stages comfortably.

The Armadillo does the exact same thing. Actually, the record dives in Weeki Wachee were done using a KISS mounted on an Armadillo. No other side mount rig was taken on any exploration of Weeki Wachee.

Bottom line...The Armadillo is the only rig designed exclusively for sidemount diving. Anything else is for people that want to carry tanks on their sides. If you just want to carry tanks on your sides get a Nomad. If you want to do sidemount diving, make your own or get an Armadillo!

The fact that the Nomad has 60# of lift is telling...I do not even have that much with my OxyCheq wing and I can carry 4+ stages with NO problem.

[aainslie]

Walter is definitely right - SM and excessive lift are a bad combo. My latest sidemount rig has 12 lbs of lift - and it's manual inflate. It helps me stay flat in far smaller areas than I could go before.

It was designed by Steve Bogaerts and it's a thing of beauty.

[OWSI176288]

Have the DR Nomad and love it. I dive 104's for cave and AL 80's for OW. Just add a 5 and 3 lbs weight to the crotch strap and it works great with 80's and never notice the weights there.
I use 3 lb weights on the shoulder straps instead of 2 lb most use.
When you buy it, find someone that has one to take it apart and build it correctly.
If it's not put together right, you will think you threw a way a lot of money real quick.
Once dialed in you'll be happy.

Would you mind giving a "brief" explanation of how to re-build it correctly, or post a pic?

I have a Nomad (old version with less lift) that I really like for SM. I eventually took it apart, made modifications, and put it back together a little different then how I received it. But a way I much prefer.

Was hoping, by dumb luck, I am on the right track.


Thanks in advance,
Doug

[FW]

Would you mind giving a "brief" explanation of how to re-build it correctly, or post a pic?

I have a Nomad (old version with less lift) that I really like for SM. I eventually took it apart, made modifications, and put it back together a little different then how I received it. But a way I much prefer.

Was hoping, by dumb luck, I am on the right track.


Thanks in advance,
Doug
The DiveRite website has a series of videos that explain how to setup a Nomad.

[aainslie]

Would you mind giving a "brief" explanation of how to re-build it correctly, or post a pic?

I have a Nomad (old version with less lift) that I really like for SM. I eventually took it apart, made modifications, and put it back together a little different then how I received it. But a way I much prefer.

Was hoping, by dumb luck, I am on the right track.


Thanks in advance,
Doug


Go look at Mike mcC's signature... :)

[guru caver]

...I do not even have that much with my OxyCheq wing and I can carry 4+ stages with NO problem.

So you can do that with a wetsuit and an Armadillo? :smt079

[Rich]

If you just want to carry tanks on your sides get a Nomad. If you want to do sidemount diving, make your own or get an Armadillo!

Hey Walt,

I'd argue that with you 'till I'm blue in the face but I don't want to have a battle of wits with an unarmed man.....

Safe diving,

Rich

P.S. I don't see an Armadillo/homemade rig holding the EOL at Ginnie. ;)

[Slüdge]

Go look at Mike mcC's signature... :)

That was two signatures ago, Andrew.

[DeepSea]

Hey Walt,

I'd argue that with you 'till I'm blue in the face but I don't want to have a battle of wits with an unarmed man.....

Safe diving,

Rich

P.S. I don't see an Armadillo/homemade rig holding the EOL at Ginnie. ;)

You are right about Ginnie but I don't see a Nomad holding the EOL at Weeki either...

My point is simply that the Armadillo was designed for the sole purpose of sidemount diving. The Nomad was not; it was designed for diving sidemount.

[EEL]

If the Armadillo was designed for the sole purpose of sidemount diving, why are you Weeki guys mounting those pesky rebreathers to them?

Cheers,

Mark

[Rich]

You are right about Ginnie but I don't see a Nomad holding the EOL at Weeki either...

My point is simply that the Armadillo was designed for the sole purpose of sidemount diving. The Nomad was not; it was designed for diving sidemount.


Just pickin' on you Walt, guess I'll miss ya this weekend.... :)

Safe diving,

Rich

[guru caver]

You are right about Ginnie but I don't see a Nomad holding the EOL at Weeki either...

My point is simply that the Armadillo was designed for the sole purpose of sidemount diving. The Nomad was not; it was designed for diving sidemount.

Dude, as far as what gear is suited to do what...I don't think there really is any gear made yet to go to 400 ft. or whatever it is. Especially your KISS!! :smt101

[Rich]

LOL, my sidemount rig's better than your sidemount rig, my scooter's faster than your scooter. my reg's breathe better than your regs......how 'bout we all just knock it off and go drink beer at the NACD social.... :)

Safe diving,

Rich

[guru caver]

LOL, my sidemount rig's better than your sidemount rig, my scooter's faster than your scooter. my reg's breathe better than your regs......how 'bout we all just knock it off and go drink beer at the NACD social.... :)

Safe diving,

Rich

because I'm winning this 'Special Olympics' race...that's why!! :smt079

[RHolmesJr]

Have the DR Nomad and love it. I dive 104's for cave and AL 80's for OW. Just add a 5 and 3 lbs weight to the crotch strap and it works great with 80's and never notice the weights there.
I use 3 lb weights on the shoulder straps instead of 2 lb most use.
When you buy it, find someone that has one to take it apart and build it correctly.
If it's not put together right, you will think you threw a way a lot of money real quick.
Once dialed in you'll be happy.

And remember, as I am learning for myself, and inch of change is a mile in the water. I got a hold of a Nomad wing and changed out the old reliable Trek wing took off my 2lb shoulder weights and it was just like the 1st time I ever dove sidemount, F-UGLY. Luckily there was a seasoned SM diver at the cave I was diving and he took the extra time and gave me some great pointers that greatly improved my next dive. Thanks Mike beers/lunch on me next time I'm down.

[jpdiver]

I had an Armadillo for a few years then sold it and bought a Nomad. I like it much better. It has more lift and it is more at the hips so a heads down position is much easier. I also think it goes on more easily.

[Oxtox]

I have a Nomadillo...a Nomad with the 'dillo style tank bungee system.

really disliked the stock Nomad bungees, changed them to some more substantial bungees, a strip of 2" webbing, and some awining grommets. Cost about $12 and an hour of my time.

much happier with this mod.

[Cantey]

I have a Nomadillo...a Nomad with the 'dillo style tank bungee system.

really disliked the stock Nomad bungees, changed them to some more substantial bungees, a strip of 2" webbing, and some awining grommets. Cost about $12 and an hour of my time.

much happier with this mod.


Could you post pics of your mod?

[Jerry]

My point is simply that the Armadillo was designed for the sole purpose of sidemount diving. The Nomad was not; it was designed for diving sidemount.

The Nomad wasn't designed for side-mount diving???? You are mistaken; it was designed for sidemount. I should know; I designed it. Everything else came later; including the 60 lbs lift.

Jerry

[FW]

The Nomad wasn't designed for side-mount diving???? You are mistaken; it was designed for sidemount. I should know; I designed it. Everything else came later; including the 60 lbs lift.

Jerry
Jerry, you missed Walter's point. The Nomad was designed to do sidemount, along with the capability of backmount, and single tank. That makes it very versatile, but it wasn't designed solely for sidemount.

[Jerry]

Apparently you both missed my point. I (read the designer) designed it to be a single purpose unit FOR SIDEMOUNT. That is why the wing is under the harness and tied down at the waist.

"Everything else came later" means that after introduction buyers started experimenting and finding that it worked for other uses.

It went up to sixty pounds because there are MANY people still diving wetsuits, the most vocal request came from an instructor diving in the carribean doing deep dives in shorts and a T-shirt. No doubles available.

I dive side-mount in sidemount caves (not ginnie) all the time and I don't always dive a drysuit like the people saying 50 or 60 is too much.

Jerry

[fixxervi6]

Is it possible to use the front part of the tank clip off as a "Secure" point vs a bungie, like, a neck clip directly clipped to a d ring vs using bungies?

I ask because I know part of the purpose of the bungies are to hold the wing down, the problem I run into is when my 108's are completely full (3600+) I have to really pump that thing full of air to get it to float, when I do that the wing pulls the bungies really tight giving me what I call "straight jacket effect" by lifting the tanks up and pulling everything in super tight.

As I breath the tanks down of course I don't need as much lift so the rig becomes more comfortable.

My only work around to date has been to pump up my drysuit more for bouancy and let air out of the nomad, but of course I end up with air in my feet etc etc.

slightly off topic but I thought I would throw it out there, do I have something setup wrong, or is this just the norm and I need to get used to it, or, what?

[Jerry]

No it doesn't sound as if you doing anything wrong. It sounds as of you need to lengthen the bungeiss a little bit. You can do this by adding another quick link in at the connection point.

Jerry

[fixxervi6]

cool thanks for the tip I'll give it a try

[Brian Kakuk]

Jerry,
I found just moving the front bungee connection from the shoulder D ring to the harness ring (holds the two sections of the shoulder strap together) gives a little lattitude with adjustment as well. If I need the tanks in tighter (higher), I use the shoulder D rings. If the tanks are larger and they are squeezing me a bit, I'll move the bungee clip to the harness ring. Just my two cents.

Brian

Brian Kakuk
Bahamas Underground
www.bahamasunderground.com
Bahamas Caves Research Foundation
www.bahamascaves.com
Phone: (242) 359-6128

[Jerry]

Jerry,
I found just moving the front bungee connection from the shoulder D ring to the harness ring (holds the two sections of the shoulder strap together) gives a little lattitude with adjustment as well. If I need the tanks in tighter (higher), I use the shoulder D rings. If the tanks are larger and they are squeezing me a bit, I'll move the bungee clip to the harness ring. Just my two cents.

Brian



Brian,

I have also found that using a different front attachment point to be helpful, depending on the tanks I am using. I haven't had to go to the pivot ring(that is the ring bwtn the upper and lower shoulder strap) yet, but I am not as stocky as you are.

I am always open to others insight.

Take care,

Jerry

[phillip1]

Now I am not a sidemount expert, but I switched to sidemount for the type of access and caves here (tight caves, climbing down tight dry caves, long walks, rappelling etc..) and I have a Nomad, I really have not found any bad things about it so far, it is the one from 2007 with less lift. I dive through very tight spots, some sumps with walking in a dry cave for a while to access the cave diving part and almost 100% exploration diving in sometimes difficult jungle sites and I find the nomad to be really good, easy on and off, no problem with a rappelling harness on, and most importantly (after messing around with the rig for a while) it is super comfortable in the water. I sometimes use the choker system with stage straps for long hauls or most of the time with regular 15" bungies and both ways are equally good.
I also do allot of dives from boats in the ocean and it is perfect for that too.
Now I have not tried the Armadillo (but have dived with many people who have one) and although I am sure it is also just as good a sidemount rig I can't see it as being way better, just as good and another alternative but not way better I don't think.

[loquat149]

I have a Nomadillo...a Nomad with the 'dillo style tank bungee system.

really disliked the stock Nomad bungees, changed them to some more substantial bungees, a strip of 2" webbing, and some awining grommets. Cost about $12 and an hour of my time.
much happier with this mod.

Can you post a pic or a basic description with measurements? It does look like bungees on the inside a la the Armadillo would be better. I'm also interested in seeing what other mods folks have applied to their Nomads. I'm not a big fan of the TransPac's pads, buckles, and rings and am thinking of converting the shoulder straps of my wife's Nomad to something more Hogarthian, again like the Armadillo.

Dave

[Jerry]

Can you post a pic or a basic description with measurements? It does look like bungees on the inside a la the Armadillo would be better. I'm also interested in seeing what other mods folks have applied to their Nomads. I'm not a big fan of the TransPac's pads, buckles, and rings and am thinking of converting the shoulder straps of my wife's Nomad to something more Hogarthian, again like the Armadillo.

Dave

Every thing on the Nomad is done for a reason; moving the bungees to the inside will allow the wing to float up behind you. The bungees are designed so that they don't pull the the valves in tight; it causes the cylinders to a-frame. A framing is really a bad thing in tight places; especially if you have to back up. The Nomad bungee also allows the cylinders to ride parallel to your body if the cylinder hardware is properly placed.

Jerry

[phillip1]

Like Brian suggested, if you move the bungie attachment point from the shoulder dring to the harness dring you get a lot of range. I did not really modify anything on my Nomad, I just attached 3lbs chest weights on the shoulder straps messed around a bit with strap length and it was good to go. The bungie is cool both ways, old way & choker system.
I can see the Armadillo as being a good alternative too, but way better I doubt it, just as good but not way better.

[wetagain]

I wouldnt buy any of them, I drilled a hole in the bottom corners of an old plastic backplate, and clip in there, it works fine.

[steve fanell]

i just got a meg and i want to put it on my nomad rig has any one done this and does it work

[Jerry]

I wouldnt buy any of them, I drilled a hole in the bottom corners of an old plastic backplate, and clip in there, it works fine.

I guess you have missed all the many reasons to keep a rigid backplate out a sidemount rig. You SHOULD look at them before you go anywhere small.

Jerry

[wetagain]

I guess you have missed all the many reasons to keep a rigid backplate out a sidemount rig. You SHOULD look at them before you go anywhere small.

Jerry

I guess you have missed all the many reasons to keep a rigid backplate on a sidemount rig. You SHOULD look at them before you go anywhere small.

Phillip

[Kelly Jessop]

I guess you have missed all the many reasons to keep a rigid backplate on a sidemount rig. You SHOULD look at them before you go anywhere small.

Phillip



I would feel very uncomfortable putting something inflexible into a tight area.

[wetagain]

Then I suggest you don't do it.

[atedeschi]

I guess you have missed all the many reasons to keep a rigid backplate on a sidemount rig. You SHOULD look at them before you go anywhere small.

Phillip

And what would they be? Cause I dont see any.

[wetagain]

I stand corrected, my new advise is to spend several hundred dollars on a rig you could accomplish with the gear you already own. Please accept my apology. - Phill

[atedeschi]

why do other say they have better ways, or advice or others are going to kill themselves but never give explanations or details. I was asking what the reason would be.

[apitkin]

I stand corrected, my new advise is to spend several hundred dollars on a rig you could accomplish with the gear you already own. Please accept my apology. - Phill

A rigid backplate works fine. Until you go into something small. If your rigid backplate has not caused you any problems so far, then it is fine for the kind of diving you are doing.

However, some sidemounters pass restrictions where the rigidity of the backplate would seriously compromise their ability to do so, and since most restrictions are different coming out compared with going in, could also compromise their safety.

Andy

[wetagain]

why do other say they have better ways, or advice or others are going to kill themselves but never give explanations or details. I was asking what the reason would be.

Who said anything about better? I don't need to give you any "reasons". I said that it works fine. If someone has a problem adapting, to whatever you can use, to accomplish the same thing, then it's that given persons problem. I lol at the thought that a 1/4 in. thick backplate would give anyone any extra problems. People need to quit making caving so complex. You can buy a solution, or come up with your own. I could go cave diving with a rig made out of garbage can lids, and fishing line, but I suppose everyone would have some problem with that as well though. Jeeze

[Jerry]

I guess you have missed all the many reasons to keep a rigid backplate on a sidemount rig. You SHOULD look at them before you go anywhere small.

Phillip


Yeah well I was out diving all weekend; side-mount yesterday and backmount today. If a rigid backplate works then I would say you don't need sidemount. I have made several SM rigs from "what I had" and I learned from all them. My first was around 1992. A rigid backplate will not lay tight to you your back when you go through tight bedding planes, it will lift and hang when "side-slipping" a fracture; when backing out the butt end will lift and ratchet you in place. At some point that rigid plate will screw you.

There are no good reasons for keeping a rigid backplate in a SM rig.

Jerry

[wetagain]

Im starting to remember why I dislike this community so much.

[wetagain]

A rigid backplate will not lay tight to you your back when you go through tight bedding planes, it will lift and hang when "side-slipping" a fracture; when backing out the butt end will lift and ratchet you in place.
Jerry

BTW I totally disagree. Maybe if a noob set up the rig.

[Kelly Jessop]

BTW I totally disagree. Maybe if a noob set up the rig.

Noob or veteran,the same rules apply,and the lessons learned are worthy to be understood. Cave Diving has always been about having the right equipment. Nobody is trying flame you,but there is some very sage advice that can be offered on this forum from some very experienced people.

[skip]

There are a few rigid plate sidemounters I think somewhere in Arkansas or Missouri and for what they are doing it works just fine. But in tight places where a full breath locks you in; a rigid backplate can ratchet in place and lock you down. You can't keep going and you can't back out. But if you stay in places with enough room you may be ok.

Oxycheq sells an ultra light soft travel backplate that is heavy duty webbing sewn over in two layers with belt slides top and bottom to run 2-inch webbing. take a look at that. sure looks like best of both worlds to me.


-skip

[wetagain]

deleted, too @$$-hole-ish, sorry

[wetagain]

Why would a reasonable person go into a cave so tight, that he might get stuck by breathing in in the first place? I simply posted a cost effective method of sidemounting that works for me, in response to a question someone asked. I would have never have dreamed that some of the people disputing me, actually were co-designers of the nomad or whatever its called. (missed the first few pages) I can go through anything with my rig that a nomad can.

[wetagain]

Kurt, here are some pictures of the rig I have been alluding to. Remember the main goal of this rig is to be cost effective, and simple. SIMPLE SIMPLE SIMPLE, in my opinion is more important than anything. The wing I use, im not sure what brand it is, is small, and most importantly is entirely elastic, so that as you dump volume, it contracts onto itself, also reducing drag, and completely eliminating the fold up effect we so often see. Make sure whatever you do, to include a crotch strap for better general stability. This rig does not want to carry more than one stage I do admit, due to the size of the wing, but thats fine for me.

In shot number one, you will simply see the profile of the wing as it wraps around the backplate.

In shot number two, you can see the simple manner in which you can hook in. The total length of the clip will vary, with the different sized diver, but the idea of course is to make sure it is not hanging below or above you at all.

In shot three, you can see why the backplate does not interfere with clearance at all, due to the fact that the wings ride on the outside portion of the ridge in the backplate. These wings will be there anyway, and the backplate ridge just ends up sitting in between the inflated cells. You can also see the crotch strap attached, which when kept sufficiently tight, eliminates the concern of "wedging" you in while backing up.

In shot four, the tanks are clipped on, and it shows just a general rear profile. The tanks will definitely hang down more than this, but so long as they are paralell to your body, while wearing it, you are good.

In shot five, you can see where a tab has been sown on the outer edge of the wing, and a shock cord woven through the backplate contracts and releases, dependant on the level of inflation in the wing, further reducing volume, and drag. This same shock cord is used throughout the whole rig, just woven from point to point, where it is needed.

In shot six, you can see that same shock cord coming over the very top, and then the sides, but toward the top, to encourage the air to congragate in the lower portion of the wing, but not so tight as to restrict the flow of air from one side to another. You can also see here where the wing is turned around backwards, to help protect the inflator connection, and I also find this makes the length of the corrigated hose shorter, and more realistic, due to the fact that its coming across the back of my neck, then down in front.

One other huge benifit to using this sort of setup, is that what you have left is a very simple harness on your front. No bulky padding, or un-needed d rings. You cant see this in the pics, but I have made little loops of surgical tube up under the wings, to hold the ends of my backup lights. So they end up sitting between the backplate and wing just on the outside of the backplates ridge, further eliminating clutter.

Also, this entire setup can be put together for next to nothing. Clearance is not an issue, and neither is getting stuck. Also, you can very easily use doubles, or a single.

[wetagain]

shot number 6 didnt know the limit was 5 :)

[Jerry]

Has that been to Rock Bluff??

[wetagain]

No just in the keys.

[wetagain]

and sometimes I go in the pool.

[Slüdge]

Let it go, Phillip. :smt031

[wetagain]

im serious

[Webmaster]

That seems to be a perfectly serviceable rig for what you're using it for. No one I believe is arguing that.

You are also not the first person dive almost that exact same setup. Usually the primary reason for most people diving sidemount is specifically to be able to get through tight areas where 'no reasonable person' would go. So it's a very reasonable assumption you might intend to use it for that, without further information. If you don't intend to use it for that then you should be fine.

Please don't feel that people are bashing you because they are trying to warn you of a potential danger. Sometimes tone and intentions are difficult to discern from the written word. When you have a number of people with a lot of sidemount experience telling you basically the same thing though, it might be advisable to listen. That particular issue (rigid backplates in sidemount rigs) has also been discussed at length before on here, search is your friend.

Again, it's not an attack on you. If anything it is genuine and honest concern since were such a problem to occur, you might not get another shot to correct it.

Marbry

[wetagain]

Then why don't all of you people quit responding to my posts and try to actually give this guy some sort of real suggestions. Maybe even .... gasp!..... some cheap ones. Do you really think someone setting up thier first sidemount rig intends on going somewhere where a stupid backplate is going to be life or death? I dont care if people are "attacking" me or not. I also don't care how much experience anyone on here has. Why dont you go back and read exactly how this started.

So if I have a 34 in. waist, and someone else has a 44 in. waist what then? Thats way more difference than a stupid backplate. What if a rock falls from the ceiling, and breaks your back, and a backplate could have helped you....My point is there are way to many variables for use, and for a persons size, than most are suggesting on here. So everyone quit whining about how a backplate is going to kill you and get working on a helpful post for this guy. "Let it go"?? lol, you let it go.

[Jerry]

No just in the keys.

OK- I can readily think of a half dozen places where you have to do a hard positive back arch just to get in; Rock Bluff, Bath Tub, Labatt's Blue to name some of them. Don't even ask about the contortions my rig went through in Mammoth; that is before we even got to the water!! Think of a swan dive only more arched and that is what I am taking my sidemount rig through. Your rigid back plate would not do it; I would not even worry about getting buddy plugged behind you as that rig would not make it into the cave.

I don't know if mine will do doubles; I have never tried, it is for sidemount. I have a BP and Classic wing for doubles.

If you come on here speaking authoritatively as if you are Sheck Exley what kind of reception did you expect???

This is the CAVE DIVERS forum; we all (at least I do) instinctively think sidemount is for small caves not the keys.

Jerry

[wetagain]

So whats your point? And how does it help kurt? ....Authoritatively??, now thats funny. Go re-read all of these posts and tell me who sounds like they are trying to be authorative. Please don't respond to this, as I will not respond back. You are right, your way is best, and a backplate is most definitely the worst sidemount idea in the history of sidemount ideas. Im not just saying that either, I do mean it. Yes bathtub is fine with this too.

[Jerry]

There is no helping some people; you find authoritatively funny. Yeah I think I can; I have been sidemount diving since the early 90's. I have several explorations that are sidemount only. I never said my way was the best; you inferred that. I tried to show you the weaknesses of yours. Noobe; I am not. You brought that up.

I will say that for cave diving you rig is dangerous.

Bath Tub is a spring on the Suwannee river by the way.

You need to go back to scubaboard.

Jerry

[Me]

Jerry,

What are your thoughts on racheting and the Rennaker butt plate? I've got the Rennaker on my rig, but again, I'm sidemounting for orthopedic & dicey entry area reasons, and not tight stuff. I broke an ankle once diving and do not want to repeat. But I just want to be in the know.....

Thanks!

Lori

[wetagain]

Jerry,

What are your thoughts on racheting and the Rennaker butt plate? I've got the Rennaker on my rig, but again, I'm sidemounting for orthopedic & dicey entry area reasons, and not tight stuff. I broke an ankle once diving and do not want to repeat. But I just want to be in the know.....

Thanks!

Lori

The rennaker plate works good, I like the way the reels sit, off the butt plate actually better than anything else I've found or seen, last time I used it tho was like 96'

[Jerry]

Jerry,

What are your thoughts on racheting and the Rennaker butt plate? I've got the Rennaker on my rig, but again, I'm sidemounting for orthopedic & dicey entry area reasons, and not tight stuff. I broke an ankle once diving and do not want to repeat. But I just want to be in the know.....

Thanks!

Lori

I have never used it; I know several people, whose opinion I respect, that have and they were OK with it. It was hinged on the bottom of the TransPac so it had some give.

I personally never wanted anything rigid on my back. I had a light canister rigid attached behind my shoulder (upside down), the bottom caught the ceiling and locked me in place for a few moments. I had to remember something Woody Jasper told me; quoting his hero-Harry Houdini, "there is alsways some give somewhere so take the time to slowly find the give and work it out". I probably butchered what Houdini really said but I think the point is there.

I changed the light mounting as soon as I got home that night.

Jerry

[skip]

is wetagain banned? i see the word "banned" under his moniker and wonder if it means he is banned or just something he managed to add to his moniker?

if he's really banned, too bad. he seemed a bit overly excitable, but heck, a little excitement never hurt anything. i'm not complaining, just saying although he's a bit overbearing, i think continued conversation may improve his attitude....?

I was going to add that a rigid backplate is used by some in sidemounting (as i posted before) and that it all depends on why you are sidemounting as to how you'd set it up (like several have posted before). It doesn't take much searching here to see that sidemount rigs are all highly individualized with no one right way or wrong way either.

but also, if you want cheap, as wetagain seemed to think was wanted, and maybe it was, I don't recall, but dang my rig was about as cheap as it gets. about 7 feet of webbing, maybe 8 or 9 if you are bigger than me and most are. a bit of hardware (all of it new about 25 bucks at full retail), and a nifty little sewing awl, about 10 bucks from west marine, a used wing with some sewn in tabs, and heck if you want cheap sidemount, why buy a backplate when it's not needed at all? forget about ratcheting, think expense, and don't buy a backplate. The basic harness and a bit of sewing will get you there.

there's a lot of good ideas on this forum for building your own sidemount rig, many with pictures. the search function will locate them for you.

you can pm me for a description of what I did and some pics too, if interested in sidemount rig as cheap as it gets and no backplate (i just followed the advice of others). and you can go where no reasonable person would. my favorite places. if you can swim, see, won't wear gloves, must stay bouyant....well, you ain't cave divin'! you on vacation!


-skip

[Slüdge]

is wetagain banned?

Being argumentative is one thing. Sending insulting, profanity-laced PMs to members is another.

Ladies and gentlemen, wetagain has left the building.

[runawaylobster]

Walter is definitely right - SM and excessive lift are a bad combo. My latest sidemount rig has 12 lbs of lift - and it's manual inflate. It helps me stay flat in far smaller areas than I could go before.

It was designed by Steve Bogaerts and it's a thing of beauty.

Hmmm...

I"m planning to SM my 104's having had them split up just laying on the floor
for so long now they forgot about each other and would most likely argue
if I tried to put them together as doubles.

When diving with them, I can manage with my 45 wing but if I add a stage
then all you can see are my eyes above water which is a tad inconvenient so I
move up to the 55 wing. For
this reason I was planning to make my own SM and not buy an armadillo. Well
that and I don't want to splurge until I decide to do this alot. I"m still looking for
a used medium transpac harness, you would think that would be easy to find!!

LL

[Webmaster]

I have a DR classic wing built into my sidemount harness. It's fine unless I'm trying to do something *really* tight. As in trying not to scrape my inflator off my drysuit. But, it gives me enough flotation to carry some large steel (usually 130's or 133's) tanks and a couple of stages. But I'm a little bigger than the average diver to start with as well.

Like Skip was saying (and this has also been discussed before) all you really need is a wing, some webbing, something to sew with (machine or awl), and a little hardware to put something together if you want to go that route.

If you have a couple of wings already you can set it up so that you can try one out and switch it around of you're unsure of how much buoyancy you'll end up needing. You never know what you might end up wanting to do.

Marbry

[phillip1]

The thing with sidemount is that it is not only for super tight caves, it is in my opinion way more comfortable than backmount. Kind of like watching TV in a nice deep sofa (backmount), them having really comfrotable armrests with all the controls right there on each side and in view (sidemount).
I have no idea what kind of cave I will find so the ease of use of sidemount and the limitations (tight caves, long climbs etc..) of backmount have dictated my choice of sidemount however I have found that it is just much more convenient and comfortable in all situations and I will not be going backmount again unless absolutely necessary and I really don't see why it would be.
Having said all that I just sold my Nomad for an Armadillo to do a friend a favor and have been messing around with the Aramdillo for a few days and I can say this: it is much more streamlined on the back than the Nomad, not as comfortable but still good though, it takes allot more messing around than the Nomad but once you get it right it is very nice in the water, I really did not like having the tanks really tight in my armpits and I loosened the bungies more than most people as I like to be able to see my tank valves and it also makes breathing the tanks with no regs on way easier and in my opinion makes the whole rig much more comfortable on long dive. I dove a tight restriction with the Armadillo on to see and I must say that in very tight situations I find it a bit better than the Nomad.
My verdict is that you really cannot go wrong with either one, they both work great and all this talk about this one being way better than that one I think is really not true.
The Armadillo makes you look like you have a turtle shell on though, lol

[hudson]

Anyone switch around the dump valve and the inflator on the Nomad?

[scblade27]

I am still kind of wondering about the logic on this myself. I have heard of people doing this, but I would think it would make dumping air in a heads down position more difficult.

[Jerry]

I am still kind of wondering about the logic on this myself. I have heard of people doing this, but I would think it would make dumping air in a heads down position more difficult.


As with every thing else about side-mount it is a give and take kind of thing. Many people believe the elbow at the top is just asking to get pulled/knocked off and believe switching them and difficulty dumping is fair trade.

To me I see no need; but then at 5'9" the elbow is protected as it is right next to my ear. I know larger people diving the Nomad that have been in and out of Rock Bluff just as many times as I have and haven't had a problem with the elbow in the upper position.

Jerry

[hudson]

I am still kind of wondering about the logic on this myself. I have heard of people doing this, but I would think it would make dumping air in a heads down position more difficult.

Mine is switched around.. Heads down dumping isn't difficult, it's pretty much impossible.. at best you get a few bubbles from the inflator and end up with a lot of trapped air. I have zero cave experience at this point, so I don't know how much of a problem it'd be in a tight spot if you were to have a stuck inflator. Dump valve works great when in trim though with no need to go heads up.. conversely, when in the usual spot, I often had to roll and go slightly heads down to get the air out.