CDF

[JE]

kjh

[DeWayne]

Even though my trekking days are behind me I think that what you have proposed is a worthy undertaking. Would be happy to help out in any way, car guard or whatever is needed. Of course, talk TJ into piggy backing me to the window and I would gladly do more. Would enjoy helping with land owner relations if you think an old disabled guy might be more appealing; never know, a buddy down there used to be granted hunting rights by driving up in his mercedes hunting car. After having the guys in their monster trucks tear up their land the owners usually told him to go hwere ever he could.

[JE]

kdh

[fun2dive]

Jack,

If you meet in North Florida I will be happy to help and leave my boyfriend (who is not always politically correct) at home! :lol:

Sounds like a great idea getting a small group of divers together to work with land owners' for access. Use sugar rather than gunpowder!!!

Thanks,
-stacy

[Genesis]

ROFL!

Political correctness isn't really an issue here - I have great respect for private property rights, and as such, have no problem with negotiating such a thing - I can even "look the part" bizwise if required :D

[fun2dive]

My post said not "always" politically correct. Karl can be politically correct as long as the issue is one he believes is valid! Can you see him in a business suit? :lol:

We will support your efforts and be happy to assist!

[fun2dive]

Although, it is probably not a good idea to go to the land owners and say: "Hello, we are from F.U.C.D. ..."

See the other thread: http://cavediver.net/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=985

[JE]

kvh

[fun2dive]

Yes, I agree; take nothing but photos, leave nothing but footprints... err that is dry caves! Wet caves; take nothing but photos, leave nothing but lines and directions!

If I had a hole on my property I would want to know what is down there. Of course I would let someone check it out for me. That is if I wasn't capable of finding out by myself. Wonder what % we will be able to convince.

[DeWayne]

That is the key to gaining access where others fail. Demonstrate to the owner that you respect his land as much as he does, that you are not there to destroy anything, but on the contrary would like to help him enjoy those parts of it that he may not have knew existed. Subtlety goes a long way, it's all in that first impression that you make.

[Genesis]

We were over at Camp Kalakua (think that's spelled right) so Sarah could ride on a horsie on the way home, and noted the nice spring-fed swimming hole....

Asked in the office casually about diving (heh, its a hole, right?) and was told that they used to permit it, but no longer do, as there have been a number of incidents of people removing artifacts from the site. :cry:

Pretty obviously OW divers (I doubt the artifacts are THAT far back in!), and a casual look at some maps later showed that the cave there gets quite deep in a hurry (probably beyond my comfort level anyway), but it sucks severely that land access to this site has been closed due to abuse - the camp itself is stunningly nice, the facilities gorgeous, the people very gracious and kind, and pissing off these folks just to steal some arrowheads was unbelieveably foolish. To them - and indeed, I suspect, to most landowners - a diver is a diver - they don't see a difference between someone in OW gear and someone with a cave rig on their back.

[DeWayne]

We were over at Camp Kalakua (think that's spelled right) so Sarah could ride on a horsie on the way home, and noted the nice spring-fed swimming hole....

Asked in the office casually about diving (heh, its a hole, right?) and was told that they used to permit it, but no longer do, as there have been a number of incidents of people removing artifacts from the site. :cry:

Pretty obviously OW divers (I doubt the artifacts are THAT far back in!), and a casual look at some maps later showed that the cave there gets quite deep in a hurry (probably beyond my comfort level anyway), but it sucks severely that land access to this site has been closed due to abuse - the camp itself is stunningly nice, the facilities gorgeous, the people very gracious and kind, and pissing off these folks just to steal some arrowheads was unbelieveably foolish. To them - and indeed, I suspect, to most landowners - a diver is a diver - they don't see a difference between someone in OW gear and someone with a cave rig on their back.

Where is that camp located and what is the name of the spring? You never know what a few casual conversations with the owners/managers might yield. Demonsrtate a desire to enhance their knowledge of their site through our efforts. Might be worth casually mentioning the existence of the trash room in JB, you never know what might be found in there until you go and look. Presented in the proper fashion they might see it as a means of promoting the camp by being able to offer more insight into the nature of the spring. When we used to ask permission to hunt someone's land we would show the owners that was a by product of doing game counts for them, thinning the herd conservatively, looking to see if anyone had been tresspassing. You have to show the owner what's in it for them before asking for what you want out of the deal.

[ghekhuis]

I used to be very much into talking to landowners and trying to improve landowner relations. There wasn't much we could offer, except for pictures. But I found that was usually taken pretty well. They didn't have to be real good, and there didn't have to be to many, but landowners usually seemed to be tickled to actually see for themselves what people did (or hoped to do) underground. The less high tech the better. Prints worked especially well because landowners could tote them around and show them to their friends and neighbors. I don't know, but it might work for underwater caves too. Perhaps special landowners might rate a calendar, too.

[JE]

kch

[Genesis]

Where is that camp located and what is the name of the spring? You never know what a few casual conversations with the owners/managers might yield. Demonsrtate a desire to enhance their knowledge of their site through our efforts. Might be worth casually mentioning the existence of the trash room in JB, you never know what might be found in there until you go and look. Presented in the proper fashion they might see it as a means of promoting the camp by being able to offer more insight into the nature of the spring. When we used to ask permission to hunt someone's land we would show the owners that was a by product of doing game counts for them, thinning the herd conservatively, looking to see if anyone had been tresspassing. You have to show the owner what's in it for them before asking for what you want out of the deal.

http://www.floridacaves.com/hornsby.htm

I believe this is the correct one....

http://www.floridacaves.com/hornsby.htm

I believe this is the correct one....

It looks like a nice system, too bad it's closed. :(

[JE]

kvh

[sdalcher]

Keep up the good work!

Steve

[JE]

kvh

[Buford]

Gunpowder Cave

Gunpowder Cave near Chiefland is an interesting place, as are its surroundings. Ever hear of "junkers?" You may need steel tires on your vehicle. :roll: There isn't much real cave there, but it is a very nice cavern and IMO could be used for cavern dive training. It has a fairly large main (entrance) room with a perfectly flat ceiling that is appx 10ft below water level. This room has a "hopper" in its floor that leads to the real cave below, which is relatively small.

New NSS Grotto

As a long time FL caver associated with the FSS, including current officer's duties, I can assure you that creating a new NSS grotto and maintaining it is no trivial matter. Work, work, work, ... Existing FL grottos are composed of both dry and dive cavers, and you would be most welcome at any grotto meeting.

In fact, the Central Florida Grotto and Flint Ridge Grotto are both hurting for members at the current time, and it would be good to phoenix them up from the embers. You may be pleasantly surprised to learn that dry cavers often lead cave divers to new windows. Dry cavers do a lot of ridgewalking - in fact, they invented the term.

When living in Jacksonville, FL a few years ago, perusing the NSS Manual I counted 20+ NSS members living in Duval County. I considered starting a Jax Grotto, but never got off my arse to do so. Maybe the time is right now?

We will need to be frugelent in selecting our dive locales.

But we don't need to be making up new words to confuse interlopers.

BTW, exactly what is that on your avatar? At first I thought it was some guy doing "armpit farts," then I thought maybe he was playing air guitar. After studying it closely, I have NO IDEA what he's doing.

Russell

[JE]

none

[JE]

none

[fun2dive]

The only way for me to make it during the week is if you have the meeting in NW FL (Destin/FWB/Niceville)... Some of us have to work during the week; errr most of us work during the week...

[JE]

Ok after some carefull thought, this may still be a good idea to have the CEE as a diver's gathering spot. The idea of having a central place to plan diving excursions is probably a good one, and we should have a spot where we could hook up anyways. So you all can take it from here, and if you want to meet there {CEE} to arrange dive partners & plans, I think that is a good idea. Any feed back here is welcome on this.
Thanks for the input Cindy & some others who contributed to this.

Jack

ps: my avatar will be back-! 8)