Gator Spring line ends

[ARY]

Little bit older information (July 4) but mainline in the deep section (past the sinkhole) is ended up in a sediment mound (at 500' or so). I did line search but wasn't able to find the other end as viz was 2-4ft before i have even got there so i returned. Gold line before the sink was also in a danger from a load of broken branches. I cleared it up a little however there is just so much debris!

[crchrds]

Is this a new change? The line used to be broken frequently- there are a few thousand feet of line down there, and the viz is rarely really good. We lost the line and flow at one point about 2500 feet back and realized that the flow was coming directly downward- the main passage that you follow from the bottom of the sink ends up at the bottom of a large diameter shaft (too large too see most days) where the line went directly up from the center of the room to the lip of the top of the shaft (which is in the floor of truly LARGE passage.) That is a stunning cave. Too bad the viz is really so bad. We never were able to connect it to the upstream siphon in the river, though it is obvious that it connects.

Jason

[ARY]

There was a post at Walter's site that tells that some team is re-lining it currently. Because I bumped into mound of silt where line dissapeared not far upstream from the sink I realized that cave/line is still going but seasonal flooding just built a hill and ate the line. Cave definitely goes. Too bad I had no flow and near zero viz.

Where is the big syphon? I also went upstream (north) from the spring entrance but tunnel becomes too narrow after 150' or so. That tunnel was a slight syphon.

It is not too far from the river rise, does main deep upstream tunnel bend to the north?

[DeepSea]

So folks I know dove this on Saturday. The line is covered by a sand pile but you can gap to the other side (that is what they did).

[rchrds]

There was a post at Walter's site that tells that some team is re-lining it currently. Because I bumped into mound of silt where line dissapeared not far upstream from the sink I realized that cave/line is still going but seasonal flooding just built a hill and ate the line. Cave definitely goes. Too bad I had no flow and near zero viz.

Where is the big syphon? I also went upstream (north) from the spring entrance but tunnel becomes too narrow after 150' or so. That tunnel was a slight syphon.

It is not too far from the river rise, does main deep upstream tunnel bend to the north?

Canoe upstream and you will eventually see the siphon on the left side of the river in a shallow bit. It is scary looking. Here you can see where the grass grows that gets sucked into and deposited in the cave. I have to think about it- but I dont remember any other passage from the spring entrance, other than the main one that goes to the surface sink and then drops to the main cave. I think there might have been a small side tunnel, but if i remember correctly, it was extremely unstable and partially collapsed on me once. (It was a siphon as it led back to the river.) I dont remember how long it was, I never went back. I never mapped the cave (it needs to be done) so I'm not sure where it really leads, other than there is an obvious connection to the previously mentioned surface siphon, but that may be a side tunnel- The main passage that you finally emerge in after 2500 feet is very reminiscent of the river rise cave system- very large and black- again, I have never seen the suspected end of the line (we went past the reported distance, and every time we had to lay line, we kept running in to remnants of line further on. The reported end of the line had been 4600-5000 feet, but the person who reportedly lined it could not remember details, so it was suspect. That also was not the end of the cave.

It is unfortunate that the flow/visibility is usually so bad, but I really like that cave and Tennant and I spent a lot of time working in there. (Helps that it was close to home.)

A funny story related to the cave- Tennant and I were there for a late evening (10PM) dive following work, and were gearing up to swim across the river. As we got ready to enter the water, a Wildlife officer showed up and asked us what we were doing. OF COURSE, we are standing in waist deep water, scooters, tanks and baloney already attached- I mean we were ready to go, and he wants to have a conversation. So we stop and tell him about the cave, and banter a little bit. So then, he finally pops us- If we dont have a dive flag, we cant dive in the cave!?! So, of course we argue that we aren't really diving in the waterway, we are only swimming across it, and that you only need the dive flag if we are diving in the waterway! He wont have any of it, and repeats that if we dont find a dive flag he will cite us and other worse things if we swim across to the cave. For some unknown reason, Mikey actually had this crappy dive flag in the bottom of his car. So, grumbling, we swam across the river to the cave, and once we had pulled ourselves into the entrance, we yanked the flag down into the cave with us and tied it off to the line. I hope it was as annoying to him as it was funny to us. Anyway, he wasn't there when we returned four hours later, and we didn't get tickets, so, whatever.

[Line Squirrel]

and once we had pulled ourselves into the entrance, we yanked the flag down into the cave with us and tied it off to the line.

LMAO - That's hilarious!

[sdenney]

Richard Dreher and I relined the main passage from the entrance to the sinkhole. Beyond that it is still the old line. I have been gone for the summer, but when vis clears and I am back in town I plan to line more of it.

Feel free to line more of the main line if you wish. (You can contact Richard Dreher at the NACD and request gold line for the relining).

Safe Diving
--- Sean Denney

[ARY]

I would participate in re-line however current vizibility in the system sucks. Hopefully dryer season will improve the situation.

[bluedjango1]

A funny story related to the cave- Tennant and I were there for a late evening (10PM) dive following work, and were gearing up to swim across the river. As we got ready to enter the water, a Wildlife officer showed up and asked us what we were doing. OF COURSE, we are standing in waist deep water, scooters, tanks and baloney already attached- I mean we were ready to go, and he wants to have a conversation. So we stop and tell him about the cave, and banter a little bit. So then, he finally pops us- If we dont have a dive flag, we cant dive in the cave!?! So, of course we argue that we aren't really diving in the waterway, we are only swimming across it, and that you only need the dive flag if we are diving in the waterway! He wont have any of it, and repeats that if we dont find a dive flag he will cite us and other worse things if we swim across to the cave. For some unknown reason, Mikey actually had this crappy dive flag in the bottom of his car. So, grumbling, we swam across the river to the cave, and once we had pulled ourselves into the entrance, we yanked the flag down into the cave with us and tied it off to the line. I hope it was as annoying to him as it was funny to us. Anyway, he wasn't there when we returned four hours later, and we didn't get tickets, so, whatever.

Funny until the same jerk wad is waiting for you when you come back from the dive (he wasn't there when we started) and writes you the $61 ticket for diving without the flag... Dave decided to bail on the dive and when we returned saw him chatting with the 'possum police. After chatting awhile above the entrance Dave waved us out, annoyed... he let us know that we were only getting one ticket instead of three. ugh...

Safe diving,
Corey Mearns

PS. Don't forget your diver down flag... especially at Gator.

[DeepSea]

Richard Dreher and I relined the main passage from the entrance to the sinkhole. Beyond that it is still the old line. I have been gone for the summer, but when vis clears and I am back in town I plan to line more of it.

Feel free to line more of the main line if you wish. (You can contact Richard Dreher at the NACD and request gold line for the relining).

Safe Diving
--- Sean Denney

Sean, the first 500' of that line was replaced last week as well. I was told that 36# (not knotted) was used.

[rchrds]

Sean, the first 500' of that line was replaced last week as well. I was told that 36# (not knotted) was used.

Holy ****. Please, please knot the line you install. Even if it is goldline. If it is not goldline, there is absolutely no excuse for such laziness. That is just asking to have your nice new line ripped out and replaced with knotted line.

[sdenney]

I used gold line. I didn't knot it because it was so short a distance (only 300 ft with plenty of tie-offs). [Knotting non-gold line is customary]. The other reason for not knotting the line was this was the first time I had lined a cave passage and just wanted the experience.

I have some distance markers made up that I was going to install on my last dive, but the vis was so bad you couldn't see 2 inches in front of your face... and I hadn't made it into the cave yet. :(

[rchrds]

yea- I hate to be a dick, you say that laying knotted non-gold line is the usual, and that is good- There arent that many places that need knotted gold line, but that is one of them- not having a survey completed already allows someone to come back in and work on it without having to bring in a tape- which would really be a pain considering the usual visibility. But none the less, thanks for working on the line in there, it did need to be done!

Jason

[sdscdive]

hi guys and girls i have enjoyed 2 dives in gator in the last few days . i only live 2 miles away so i have wasted the opportunity because i heard it was not that good. i estimate the vis to be 10 to 15 ft... its better the further in you go. i know that Agnes and Andreas have put in new line. good job. with all this new attention i hope the cave will get a good dusting . safe diving scott butsch

[*Ag*]

We have dropped over 3 550ft into the cave - unknotted. Sorry - the line was broken all over the place so we decided to replace it to make the place safer for us to dive. Given the line in there wasn't knotted, we simply replaced it. There was a lot of old line in there, in some places 4 lines run alongside, so all that crap is out. But yeah only recently did it become obvious that no one has actually surveyed it before.

The other day we went in there to just poke around, and as soon as we swam a bit past the fresh line we laid the old line was broken again... So more new line will go in to fix that problem.

I'd be happy to go in with a tape and put some distance markers in... but given that until a few weeks ago no one has been in the system for yonks and it is off the beaten path I wonder if it is worth it?

The vis has improved with each dive we have done over the last 4 weeks... but obviously it will never be gin clear.

[rchrds]

It is always worth it. Putting distance markers in doesn't help with survey- they are frequently too far away from a station to be useful, and force you to use a tape to go either back or forward from a marker to a station. (Not always a problem depending on the grade of survey.) If you like to lay line, get into the habit of knotting every single piece of line that goes onto your reels, and this problem will go away. Eventually you will start surveying (please?) and you will realize what a problem you are creating. Even my jump reels have knotted line- and I cant tell you how many times they have been pushed into service to lay new line in virgin cave.

Jason

[rchrds]

hey *ag* is this agnes? heard from a birdie you were a stud at snail shell...

[Andreas]

Eventually you will start surveying (please?) and you will realize what a problem you are creating.

We created a problem by replacing the un-knotted line..? :D That's an interesting point of view.

Well, for me personally I never imagined that someone would have explored that much cave without surveying. So there really didn't seem to be a need for knots.

[ARY]

If anyone else does survey pls contact me, Cindy or Scott so we can coordinate the effort and get the result faster. I suggest to remove the thread and move it to CB explorers.

[DeepSea]

I suggest to remove the thread and move it to CB explorers.

Why would you recommend that Ary? Does everyone that reads this forum have access to that? Honestly, I really don't understand why you would suggest that...

[ARY]

Why would you recommend that Ary? Does everyone that reads this forum have access to that? Honestly, I really don't understand why you would suggest that...
Survey is project. Project has events. People who not involved should be able to read about it however mainstream visitor may find information exchange about details non-valuable and more like talks between individuals. That is why...

[Cindy]

Ary may want to do a map and sell it on the web for all know. Don't start picking on each other now just cause it's a rainy day...
We are diving there Sat. and can pull tape. Who wants to do the map? I'll send the survey data to them or I know a good map maker who will do that for us. Email me at cindyb3007@yahoo.com and we can co-ordinate our efforts. I know it has been surveyed before. Lamar, Woody and Wes have all pushed it before and told me about it. The reason it's called Gator hole is that either Wes or Lamar got bit trying to 'rescue" a gator from the sink. I can almost bet they not only surveyed it but have a map. That doesn't mean it can't still be mapped. It's fun if nothing else. Cindy :)

[DeepSea]

Joel Clark recently did a great map of Ruth. You might want to run it passed him.

He will be at Cathy's tomorrow for the swap meet...

[DeepSea]

The reason it's called Gator hole is that either Wes or Lamar got bit trying to 'rescue" a gator from the sink.

Wasn't that Gator Rescue Cave in Lafayette County? Woody Jasper (and others) rescued a baby gator there.

[Cindy]

James Hurley already did a map of Ruth. It's for sale on the NACD website. See what I mean. Lack of co-ordination? Anyway I guess I don't understad. Did Joel start survey at Gator hole? or are you just recomending him for a cartographer? Thanks, Cindy

[Cindy]

Wasn't that Gator Rescue Cave in Lafayette County? Woody Jasper (and others) rescued a baby gator there.

Hmm, now I'm stumped. Wes was here and told me a short version of the story. I thought he said it was at the 27 bridge. I'm born blonde and get things mixed up easy. Cindy :)

[Serota]

The Ruth Map will be available at Cathy's tomorrow.

[DeepSea]

James Hurley already did a map of Ruth. It's for sale on the NACD website. See what I mean. Lack of co-ordination? Anyway I guess I don't understad. Did Joel start survey at Gator hole? or are you just recomending him for a cartographer? Thanks, Cindy


That is Joel's map. James (to my knowledge) never produced a map. I was recommending Joel...

[DeepSea]

Hmm, now I'm stumped. Wes was here and told me a short version of the story. I thought he said it was at the 27 bridge. I'm born blonde and get things mixed up easy. Cindy :)

No worries...I just heard the story about Woody...

[Cindy]

The Ruth Map will be available at Cathy's tomorrow.

Cool. I'd like to see it. Jean will pick me up a copy. I have dived that cave quite a bit. Have you been there lately? Any idea of conditions at the sink near the road? Cindy

[rchrds]

We created a problem by replacing the un-knotted line..? :D That's an interesting point of view.

Well, for me personally I never imagined that someone would have explored that much cave without surveying. So there really didn't seem to be a need for knots.


Andy you are doing....what? Exploring... without surveying? hee.hee.

It's just bad technique, and a little selfish. Eventually you will run across new passage and there will be line to be laid, and then what? You just put in whatever is not knotted- and then where are you? Someone is going to have to survey it- why not you? why not now?
And to respond to Ary- not every survey project requires a million folks and hours- one or two individuals could very easily make a very effective line plot survey in just a few dives- I think that C and I average 1000 feet of survey per dive if that is what we are doing, and probably 300-400 feet if we are just fiddling about- but much of that relies on knotted line- very, very few caves in N FL have actually been surveyed- well, probably most of the easy to get ones have been, but that is still relatively very few.

Once you get used to surveying, it becomes a regular, easy thing, and then you realize how wrong you were not putting knotted line in everywhere.

After all, is it that much work to add knots when you line your reels, or is everyone really that lazy?

Sheesh.

[rchrds]

Ary may want to do a map and sell it on the web for all know. Don't start picking on each other now just cause it's a rainy day...
We are diving there Sat. and can pull tape. Who wants to do the map? I'll send the survey data to them or I know a good map maker who will do that for us. Email me at cindyb3007@yahoo.com and we can co-ordinate our efforts. I know it has been surveyed before. Lamar, Woody and Wes have all pushed it before and told me about it. The reason it's called Gator hole is that either Wes or Lamar got bit trying to 'rescue" a gator from the sink. I can almost bet they not only surveyed it but have a map. That doesn't mean it can't still be mapped. It's fun if nothing else. Cindy :)

Cindy- wrong Gator Hole. this is a different cave we are talking about. You are thinking of the one on the Suwannee.

But speaking of that- actually called "Gator Rescue Cave," The last time I was in that area, the river was super low and I was able to get in at the river for the first time. (I always slinked down the sinkhole, though I'm pretty sure it is closed off now) The river entrance, being partially dry, had this fantastic bowl type room full of crystal clear water, with the river water on the other side of the lip of the bowl- you had to flop over the ledge into the bowl, and then the cave led off from that- It was just a beautiful entrance- particularly since it is almost always filled with tannic river water.

And as for survey, I do believe that Woody,Wes et al might have surveyed Gator Rescue Cave, though the data has been sequestered or lost (the result is the same, in this case) and I believe the number was 4000 feet. The line does end in that cave about that distance, but the cave certainly does not get larger and larger the way gator hole does.

J

[Cindy]

Jason, I love ya man and you only show up in my life to tell me when I'm wrong. Now that's just wrong! :)
Doing all that diving down here and you never call...you and C need to stop by and see me sometime. We do have a spare room.
I know that Woody and crew did dive the area and River Rise. Woody made a habit of that area. I really doubt any of us are doing anything "New". It's just too well known and easy to access there. It will be a good training exersice for our two new team members. Besides I haven't been there..so it's new to me. Cindy :)

[rchrds]

Cindy B- we'd love to, work has been a killer this year- I've only been at the house 2.5 months out of the whole year. C's not to impressed. Besides, all this caving we're talking about is ancient history. The only caving that's been going on this year is stuff up here in TN, and a project in the panhandle. Did you get to attend the mini-workshop this weekend? PM me and let me know how it went!

J