What do you do with your backup lights?

[flyczek]

My shoulders feel too crowded with backup lights, they just don't seem to fit in the traditional backmount method. I've tried putting them in my drysuit pockets, but they are slow to deploy. I've heard some people keep the lights on their bottles. Right now, I have mine bungied to my back and clipped to the SS buckles on the lower back. It is easy to deploy, but would be a snag point if I was going through REALLY small stuff.

So where do you guys (and gals) carry your backup lights?

[BgDadddy]

When I dove backmount, I had them clipped and bungeed onto my harness straps so that they kind of went down under my arms. When I switched to SM, I found the bottles got in the way when I tried to get to my lights.

Now I still have them clipped onto the harness straps, but I have them turned around so they point up and kind of sit on the top of my shoulders (pointing sort of up and behind me).

I also keep a 3rd one in my pocket.

[FW]

I have mine on the shoulder straps as well. They never get in the way, and it is easier to remember where to look for them in an emergency. I like the facing forward idea, but I would need to put some d-rings lower on the straps.

[stairman]

I clip mine to my right upper d-ring bottoms bungeed to the shoulder harness.I dont clip anything else there[light head,line arrows]and keep the left upper ring open for stage and o2 bottles.With the wing inflator on the left,having anything else on that side other than stages gets too cluttered to me.

[icestac]

1) I keep one on my harness near the chest (although I think I'll try to get it higher out of the way)

2) I keep one in my thigh pocket clipped off to the D ring on the inside. I actually used this one the other day, and did not have any problems deploying it.

3) I keep a Rat JR clipped off to my crotch strap D ring on the back side and then bungied it down towards the crotch.

~Jeff

[Luxrok]

I keep my backup lights and primary light on my helmet. It is really the best place for them, for me, at least when I am side-mounting. And to be honest, if I had a helmet that worked for back mount and my rebreather, I would use it there as well.

The primary light is removable from the helmet. The backup lights are not. I have two switch style lights, LED SL4s. I tried to mount my Photons to the helmet but that was a disaster. With the lights on the helmet, I have a steady platform for them and they are out of the way and easy to access.

More often then not, when I am side-mounting or just cave diving in general, it is very beneficial to have both my hands free. Either for taking navigation/survey data or for giving Patrick the finger or for installing spools, reels and markers. The helmet is also very useful for when I miss judge the formation and my head goes crashing into solid rock.

So you ask, where might I get a cave diving helmet? In all likely hood you will have to build your own custom model. Think, "Pimp my ride", you will need chrome and leather and a pump'n stereo. I think Dive Rite used to sell a helmet, but it wasn't popular enough to keep in the catalog. So, I went to the local grocery mega store, which happens to be called Mega and purchased a childern's helmet and started the process.

If you want to learn more about my helmet read this, it describes my cave diving helmet. (http://www.quietdiver.com/18/my-cave-diving-sidemount-helment.html)

You should be forewarned: One, the old times and back-mounters in Florida will really make fun of you. I remember my cave instructor showing me photos of people with helmets and railing on them. I just think Mike hadn't found a use for a good helmet. Two, I have purchased an identical model except it is teal blue. I am on a mission to make the silliest colored helmet possible. I really want people to recognize me in photos. Plus, it makes my macho friends really uncomfortable. And it needs further refinement and I didn't want to do R&D on my primary device. I would be lost without my helmet.

Good luck stowing your lights. There is no quicker way to deploy a backup light then to reach up and turn it on. Also, in really really crappy viz, you can just turn out your primary and turn on a backup. Far less light in the scatter. If you are looking at slates all day, you can do the same. Less glare.

Oh, one more thing. I keep a 4th light, LOLA from Golem Gear, in a Dive Rite Double Zip pocket that is clipped to my butt ring. It is a really tiny LED light. I hate to call dives on account of my primary not being charged, and sometimes I forget to charge it. This is off topic, but I also stow my two survey slates, zip ties, markers, extra pencils, an extra double-ender, and a neck clip for no mounting in there.

Hans

[apitkin]

I keep mine in my pockets too. I find the additional 5 seconds it takes to deploy them not to be a big problem.

[Luxrok]

I keep mine in my pockets too. I find the additional 5 seconds it takes to deploy them not to be a big problem.

I think this idea is key. In most cases my primary light dies slowly. I can see it dimming. So before I run the batteries into the ground, and damaging them, I prepare by deploying or switching on my backup. I can't think of a time that I sudden found my self in the dark. If my light does go out suddenly, it is still not an emergency. It is a minor inconvenience to be dealt with in a calm and orderly fashion. I have found myself in zero vis in wrecks and caves, so the dark is no special case. Just turn on the light before you unclip it, if possible.

Michael, my cave instructor, told me, "There is only one true emergency and it is out of air. Everything else is an inconvenience." So, I guess from a execution and planning perspective, it is unreasonable and unnecessary to worry excessively about the placement of the stowed backup light, if I can deploy it in a reasonable amount of time. It needs to be accessible and in a position to not become a hazard in the majority of the conditions I plan to dive. Additionally, if I am in a nasty tight hole, I don't need my light, there will only be one way forward and one way back. And possibly not enough room to deploy it no matter where it is. If my awareness was high enough, it should be navigable in the dark, zero vis or lights out. If I can't do it in those conditions, calmly and efficiently, then I have exceeded my abilities, skill and training.

On my rebreather and in back-mount, my lights are clipped to my shoulder d-rings and secured by inner tube to the strap. I know this isn't what you asked about. For side-mounting, well I already explained that.

I know I should be out diving, but I blew out my back snorkeling with the whale sharks in Holbox last week and I confined to cyber diving, it is a huge bummer. How ironic it is to blew out one's back while snorkeling. Maybe I should hang up all my gear.

Hans

[Kelly Jessop]

I think a back up light in a pocket is not bad,unless all your back up lights are in pockets. I have gone through some restrictions where my waist/lower trunk area gets impinged,and of course this is a good time for Murphy to strike and cause my primary to go out. Now I have the problem of not being able to reach my pocket.

[FW]

In most cases my primary light dies slowly. I can see it dimming. So before I run the batteries into the ground, and damaging them, I prepare by deploying or switching on my backup. I can't think of a time that I sudden found my self in the dark. If my light does go out suddenly, it is still not an emergency. It is a minor inconvenience to be dealt with in a calm and orderly fashion.

You must not use HID lights. Mine just suddenly go out. While it may not be the same level as OOA, if you are on a scooter it seems pretty urgent to get some other light turmed on.

[Major Restriction]

I keep my backup lights and primary light on my helmet. It is really the best place for them, for me, at least when I am side-mounting. And to be honest, if I had a helmet that worked for back mount and my rebreather, I would use it there as well.

<snip>

If you want to learn more about my helmet read this, it describes my cave diving helmet. (http://www.quietdiver.com/18/my-cave-diving-sidemount-helment.html)

<snip>

Hans

Ditto regarding the lights on the helmet. I also have two backups, one hanging from a D-ring on each shoulder, and one for good measure in a two-zip pocket hanging from my Nomad butt D-ring. One primary and five backup lights make me feel warm-and-fuzzy when I solo.

Very nice page on your helmet Hans, I'm surprised I didn't find this when I was searching for information a month ago when I was making my helmet. It would have been helpful. :)

Philip

[Luxrok]

You must not use HID lights. Mine just suddenly go out. While it may not be the same level as OOA, if you are on a scooter it seems pretty urgent to get some other light turmed on.

Forrest,

I have a mix of Sartek and Dive Rite HIDs a couple of 10watt HIDs and a 13/21watt. Some are NiMH and some are LION. In any event, it just hasn't been something I have experienced "yet", however, I believe that it does happen and under different circumstances it could be something that would require quick action.

I agree with you about the scooter, but in that case the helmet serves multiple purposes. I imagine it would protect my can and give me some place to put the light. Plus on the scooter, I imagine, I wouldn't be in a restricted environment that would inhibit the quick deployment of a light from a pocket or a shoulder. In any event, I don't scooter in the caves yet, so I don't have any direct experience and can't really give an informed opinion. Therefore, if you like, strike/ignore my scooter comment, because it is nothing more then conjecture and my wild fantasy life.

Because this was in the side-mount forum, I was focused on the light issue for side-mounting in side-mount sized passage. Every environment requires optimizations to deal with specific threats and hazards. We all have to find what works for us in the environment we are diving. What I do in cold water is different then warm water, ect, ect, ect...

And my last opinion, LISTEN TO FORREST AND KELLY! They have been at this much longer then I have and the stuff I read from them seems to be reasonable and based on experience! If Kelly or Forrest recommends a configuration or reason, give it a shot and see if it works for you. My commentary is based on my limited experience cave diving hear in Mexico and wreck diving in NJ/NY.

Hans

[Luxrok]

Very nice page on your helmet Hans, I'm surprised I didn't find this when I was searching for information a month ago when I was making my helmet. It would have been helpful. :)
Philip

Philip,

Thanks for the compliment, I hope people find the information useful. Hopefully, it is something people think is useful and well thought out. If not, tell me about it so I can fix it. If I am wrong or totally off base, let me know! I don't claim to know everything, just what I have experienced.

BTW, I try to post on the blog a couple of times a week, so check in often. If you have a topic you want to see written about, let me know. I have a couple of local instructor/cave divers who are looking for something to write about.

Now onto my meaningless opinion, I think 5 backup lights is a little excessive. However, if it makes you warm and fuzzy go for it. We all need to feel a sense of comfort and safety. Email me when you end up on your 5th light. I would really like to hear the story about that dive! Actually, I will feature your write up in the blog, I imagine the recount of that dive will be pretty instructive.

Hans

[Major Restriction]

Philip,

Now onto my meaningless opinion, I think 5 backup lights is a little excessive. However, if it makes you warm and fuzzy go for it. We all need to feel a sense of comfort and safety. Email me when you end up on your 5th light. I would really like to hear the story about that dive! Actually, I will feature your write up in the blog, I imagine the recount of that dive will be pretty instructive.

Hans

Well *technically* I always have my two helmet lights on, so I'm not sure if they really count as *backup* lights. That means I'm down to three *true* backup lights, which seems not uncommon among some solo divers ...

Once I started solo diving, I rethought my entire gear configuration. Thus, the helmet, one more backup light than typical, sidemount, two cutting devices, an extra mouth and zip ties, extra double enders, etc. And I'm still more comfortable than I was in backmount, and feel just as safe.

Actually, I've never heard of anyone having to exit on their second backup light. I'd like like to read about someone who has had that experience ... (I've had to exit twice on a backup once my primary failed.).

And I would *love* to cave dive in Mexico. My wife and I are looking into that later in the year...

[Slüdge]

And my last opinion, LISTEN TO FORREST AND KELLY!

Yeah, the Georgia boys have it going on, right? :ele

[cavediver256]

Georgia boys is a pretty broad term, that could include us all Sludge :smt081....how about the dynamic duo or something like that.....:smt102

[FW]

FWIW, I scooter with a helmet, and usually leave a second light burning on it. It doesn't penetrate far enough to scooter with, but it will keep you from hitting the ceiling while stopping to turn on a brigher backup light.

[apitkin]

I think a back up light in a pocket is not bad,unless all your back up lights are in pockets. I have gone through some restrictions where my waist/lower trunk area gets impinged,and of course this is a good time for Murphy to strike and cause my primary to go out. Now I have the problem of not being able to reach my pocket.

This is true. Usually in these kind of restrictions I can't see anything anyway, especially on the way out.

Also, we modern divers are blessed with all sorts of alternate forms of emergency lighting, such as dive watches, computers etc. Even my UW MP3 player has a pretty bright LED on it.

Andy

[Luxrok]

Also, we modern divers are blessed with all sorts of alternate forms of emergency lighting, such as dive watches, computers etc. Even my UW MP3 player has a pretty bright LED on it.

Totally off topic, but when I took my cavern and intro with Micheal I was wearing my VR3. At the time, I didn't consider I needed to turn out the light on it. Well, when I did my lights out lost line drill at cow, after a minute or two of acclimation, the light from my VR3 lit up the entire cave. It was wild. After the drill Michael provided a stern talking too me about what it means to go lights out, that includes the flashlight on my wrist.

For full cave and other classes, I now know to turn the light out on the VR3. Now back to the scheduled topic.

Hans

[flyczek]

Now there's an idea. I bet soon we will have powerful LED lights small enough to mount on our wrists. Thanks for all the great replies!

One thing I've noticed since switching to sidemount, is that it is so much easier to move my head and look around the cave. I see so much more, especially in domed portions of the ceiling. Of course this has lead to overestimating ceiling height and smacking my head on more than one occasion. The helmet thing is tempting.

I have not so fond memories of riding the flow out at JB and having my body cam around my head when I tried to look up into an air pocket that wasn't as high as I had expected. My head stopped, but my body and tanks kept on going.

[cmufieldhockey8]

Actually, I've never heard of anyone having to exit on their second backup light. I'd like like to read about someone who has had that experience ...


It's happened to 2 of my buddies in the last few months.

[Slüdge]

Interested in hearing about my triple light failure? It's in one of Ron Bear's trip reports from about five years ago.

[Wizard]

Exited on backup number two, yep done that.
In apprentice/full class we were coming out of Hill 400 and crap, my primary and the rear man of a three man team both pop at once.(as per Mr Green) But while exiting my backup starts to croak in the Lips (for real), went to second light and exited.
Bought new batteries the night before. Lesson learn, new doesn't always mean good.
I now carry three Intova B/U lights. One in pocket, two on shoulders under the velcro Dive Rite straps on a Nomad . I leave the left shoulder light dangling on the D ring and on all the time. I scooter using right hand and light on right hand and use the B/U light to look around with.
Those lights rule!

[DogDiver]

I butt mount my primary wreck cannister and have two Rat Jr's on the harness under each arm. I found my backup Pelicans were too big for sidemount location. When I use a helmet I add a fourth light...UK LED 3 watt. Depending what I'm doing will leave the helmet light on for most of the dive...Ken