Taking the plunge [Archive] - Cave Diver's Forum

Line Squirrel

06-29-2008, 11:42 AM

Pardon my ignorance on Meg's, but will the Shearwater display any deco information (like the Hammerhead), or is it just set point, etc.?

Primay handset, the APECS is "set point" The secondary handset, the Pursuit has deco, 5 gasses CC and 5 gasses O/C with the ability to change gasses if need be. I'm still reading the on-line manual. :)

Kaneo

06-29-2008, 01:28 PM

i have also been looking at the Meg. What made you decide to get the other handset?

Scubastud16

06-29-2008, 04:35 PM

Mike,

Very cool. I thought the stock secondary handset didn't give any sort of deco information, which is kind of a downside for me (not that I'm going to be buying one anytime soon, but I'd like to in the future). I like the HH sets on the Optima, but the simplicity of the KISS interests me quite a bit as well (but, like the Meg, a VR3 or other computer is 'needed' for deco information).

Line Squirrel

06-29-2008, 04:49 PM

i have also been looking at the Meg. What made you decide to get the other handset?

Not completely understanding the question.

The options were (for an eCCR) were either both handsets being the APECS but upgraded from the 2.5v to the 2.7v or the other option was to have the primary as the APECS 2.7v and the secondary handset as the Persuit.

The APECS have no decompression software, the Persuit will work you thru deco incl. trimix dives.

BUT! that's only one computer so you either need another computer capable of deco or tables...or an even better idea...all three ;)

Kaneo

06-29-2008, 05:48 PM

i did not realize the primary did not do deco. I guess thats why i see a lot of the guys using the vr3. thanks

Line Squirrel

06-29-2008, 06:03 PM

i did not realize the primary did not do deco. I guess thats why i see a lot of the guys using the vr3. thanks

Up until a couple weeks ago, both handsets were the APECS...no onboard deco so this is a huge step forward IMO.

amphipod06

06-29-2008, 06:59 PM

Scubastud16

06-29-2008, 07:05 PM

Up until a couple weeks ago, both handsets were the APECS...no onboard deco so this is a huge step forward IMO.

I agree. While I'm not eCCR officianado, it seemed kind of silly to not offer deco software in the APECS software. Will you run a VR3 with it?

Line Squirrel

06-29-2008, 08:04 PM

MORGAN

06-29-2008, 08:11 PM

How you gonna sidemount that thing?

Hope you'll still dive with us bubble-emitting OC divers!:)

Mike & Tracy

Line Squirrel

06-29-2008, 08:12 PM

I agree. While I'm not eCCR officianado, it seemed kind of silly to not offer deco software in the APECS software. Will you run a VR3 with it?

I have a lot to learn so I'm not the guy to be asking about this stuff but yes, I do have a VR3 and have been diving it OC trimix. I do have the CCR option in it already so this will be the back-up deco computer to the Persuit...I think :)

I'm kind of old school when it comes to mix dives so it will be hard to convince me not to bring my cut tables along just for sh!ts & giggles.

06-29-2008, 08:31 PM

How you gonna sidemount that thing?

I was wondering the same thing :-D

Line Squirrel

06-29-2008, 08:39 PM

I was wondering the same thing :-D

Very modular, one of the "better" units for this very thing which is another reason why I chose the Meg over a couple other units.

I gotta tell ya guys, I have had my head burried in books and my laptop for hours on end for well over a week not to mention giving my cell phone quite a work out. Lying awake at night thinking up more questions for "whoever".

I made my decision and I'm happy with it but now I think I'm about to have a core meltdown LOL I think I just need to go diving tomorrow morning and clear my head :)

stairman

06-29-2008, 09:09 PM

See mike I new those bolony sandwiches would pay off someday.

Gary

06-29-2008, 09:32 PM

I think I just need to go diving tomorrow morning and clear my head :)

That, of course, is the best idea. :)

Line Squirrel

06-29-2008, 09:33 PM

See mike I new those bolony sandwiches would pay off someday.

LOL - There ya go Randy, that and cold cans of Pork & Beans :)

tflaris

06-29-2008, 10:08 PM

"Welcome to the Dark Side"

Line Squirrel

06-29-2008, 10:16 PM

"Welcome to the Dark Side"

Thanks Tony, you and Li have been a great source of information to tap into as well as Celia and some others.

contender

06-29-2008, 10:37 PM

Hoo hoo!!!

I heard a HUGE sucking sound!!! That must have been your wallet!!! LOL!!

Congratulations and welcome to the dark side!!!!

(we secretely had a pool going as to when you were going to take the plunge...<G>)

Dive safe,

Celia & Scott

Congrats, on the Meg.
Don't worry Mike, my wallet is making a HUGE sucking sound along with yours. I won't be able to feed my kids or myself, buy any gas to drive to the caves with or get any air fills but I will have a nice rebreather to look at.:grin:

Line Squirrel

06-30-2008, 04:26 AM

Congrats, on the Meg.
Don't worry Mike, my wallet is making a HUGE sucking sound along with yours. I won't be able to feed my kids or myself, buy any gas to drive to the caves with or get any air fills but I will have a nice rebreather to look at.:grin:

LOL - I hear ya, makes one helluva doorstop :)

mwenner

06-30-2008, 08:35 AM

Congrats Mike! That's a great move. Who did you buy it from, and who's going to give you the C card? Can't wait to see you pulling it out, to dive. I know you'll end up side mounting it....Good luck with all the academics.

Line Squirrel

06-30-2008, 09:02 AM

Still trying to line up training. Looks like Jill is booked solid thru September so I'm looking at Bill (Bird) or Gregg Stanton.

PacketSniffer

06-30-2008, 10:13 AM

I agree. While I'm not eCCR officianado, it seemed kind of silly to not offer deco software in the APECS software. Will you run a VR3 with it?

This is basically because the company (ISC) does not have the resources in-house to offer on-board decompression. They originally did have deco software (several years ago) with the injection of the "Will Smithers code" but Will perished in a helicopter accident. There are still some Will Smithers equipped Megs out there BUT no one can use trimix with the algorithm because apparently no one has the PIN code to enable it.

I wouldn't consider it "silly" to not have on-board decompression. Some find having your deco algorithm separated from your RB electronics a better way (at least at this early stage of RB development). If you lose the electronics, you lose everything. Some find comfort in having a VR3 or Liquivision X1 running the deco off-board. Last resort is timer and tables.

aainslie

06-30-2008, 10:39 AM

Nice job Mike! Glad to hear it!!

Webmaster

06-30-2008, 10:46 AM

Line Squirrel

06-30-2008, 10:55 AM

Now see for that same pile of money you could have gotten a Tennessee boom stick (http://www.barrettrifles.com/rifle_82.aspx), a pile of match ammo, and probably have some left over to upgrade to baloney and cheese. ;-)

Marbry

Sweet! But I wouldn't have anywhere to shoot it. My gun club won't allow them on the range because of the noise. Too close to downtown Fort White. I would have to drive over to Chad's (Contender) range and try out that 600yd range <G>

contender

06-30-2008, 11:00 AM

Sweet! But I wouldn't have anywhere to shoot it. My gun club won't allow them on the range because of the noise. Too close to downtown Fort White. I would have to drive over to Chad's (Contender) range and try out that 600yd range <G>

They are nice, I used to shoot one out there fairly often. However, even with ear plugs in it took a day or two to be able to hear again.

Slüdge

06-30-2008, 11:44 AM

My gun club ... Too close to downtown Fort White.

I have a question that has been mystifying me for twelve years. On the sign for the Fort White Gun Club is a picture of a bald eagle. Is that what you shoot?

Scubastud16

06-30-2008, 12:04 PM

This is basically because the company (ISC) does not have the resources in-house to offer on-board decompression. They originally did have deco software (several years ago) with the injection of the "Will Smithers code" but Will perished in a helicopter accident. There are still some Will Smithers equipped Megs out there BUT no one can use trimix with the algorithm because apparently no one has the PIN code to enable it.

I wouldn't consider it "silly" to not have on-board decompression. Some find having your deco algorithm separated from your RB electronics a better way (at least at this early stage of RB development). If you lose the electronics, you lose everything. Some find comfort in having a VR3 or Liquivision X1 running the deco off-board. Last resort is timer and tables.

Ok, that makes sense. Silly probably wasn't the best choice of words, sorry if it was offensive. Like I said, I know next to jack about CCR's in general, but I love to read about them and learn because one day I'd like to pilot one.

Keeping deco info away from the general RB electronics is I smart idea (I totally agree), but to me, that's what the 2 handsets are for (again, I'm a doogan when it comes to CCR, so I could be totally off). While the RB world is highly proprietary, I just found it interesting that the HH, Optima, etc. all came with deco software, and the Meg didn't.

Mike Edmonston

06-30-2008, 12:04 PM

I have a question that has been mystifying me for twelve years. On the sign for the Fort White Gun Club is a picture of a bald eagle. Is that what you shoot?

Dude,

Bald eagles are good eatin'. Lots of meat. Not quite as tender as Panda, but definitely as good as manatee!

Yummy, I'm gonna make me a samich!

Safe Diving

icestac

06-30-2008, 12:41 PM

Bald eagles are good eatin'. Lots of meat.

I guess you've never had grilled California condor in a sweet onion teriyaki sauce. Yum!

Keeping deco info away from the general RB electronics is I smart idea (I totally agree), but to me, that's what the 2 handsets are for (again, I'm a doogan when it comes to CCR, so I could be totally off). While the RB world is highly proprietary, I just found it interesting that the HH, Optima, etc. all came with deco software, and the Meg didn't.

I don't really get much behind the reasoning of this either. I would think so long as you have 2 handset calculating deco, you should be fine. (You'd still obviously want to bring plans and contengency plans cut for the dive as well as tables).

Provided the manufacturer had the resources to include the feature properly (and that it could be turned off if desired), I don't see why the feature SHOULD not be included.

My 02.

I'd be interested to know if there is a good reason (other than a business case) not to include it.

~Jeff

Mike Edmonston

06-30-2008, 12:50 PM

I'd be interested to know if there is a good reason (other than a business case) not to include it.

~Jeff

Hi Jeff,

I believe that final development was not completed on the decompression algorythm. (I could be wrong)

Also, I don't think it's a priority for the MEG's and their business model. With the advent of the X1, and the 4th cell capabilities of the VR3 among others, rebreather divers have a mirriad of deco algorythms to suit their needs and are not locked into the factory profiles. I believe that the added cost of the deco software would not enhance sales, as most divers at this level would use their own profiles.

Safe diving..

icestac

06-30-2008, 01:47 PM

Also, I don't think it's a priority for the MEG's and their business model. With the advent of the X1, and the 4th cell capabilities of the VR3 among others, rebreather divers have a mirriad of deco algorythms to suit their needs and are not locked into the factory profiles.

It would be interesting if they would just ship with that hardware (just barebones) and you would load your own software on it (I guess like the X1). I wonder if the dive computer industry would ever get to that point across the board where we have a standard hardware API or OS for software manufacturers to write their deco logic to.

Hmm... thanks for the response.

~Jeff

PacketSniffer

06-30-2008, 02:11 PM

Silly probably wasn't the best choice of words, sorry if it was offensive.

No worries. You didn't offend. Just trying to convey that there are two ways to look at it.

Keeping deco info away from the general RB electronics is I smart idea (I totally agree), but to me, that's what the 2 handsets are for (again, I'm a doogan when it comes to CCR, so I could be totally off). While the RB world is highly proprietary, I just found it interesting that the HH, Optima, etc. all came with deco software, and the Meg didn't.

Leon (ISC) focuses on a rock solid unit above all else. He won't add/subtract anything if it makes his rebreather less reliable. So, aside from other issues, he can be slow on implementation.

Ideally, it would be best to *have* the deco algorithm on-board and reading live off the loop. However, we are just not there yet to have bullet proof electronics from anyone. In my opinion, the Meg comes very close (but just doesn't have a deco algorithm in it). But, in general for this niche hobby, there needs to be more maturity in the hardware design to really get the reliability that we need in a life support system. So, for now, I like the two separated.

I have an understanding of too many stories of divers beating their handsets on hard objects to get them to turn on at depth; handsets turning off at random, handsets rebooting, anomalies in the deco code implementation, and a host of other issues. I'm keeping it simple for now (rock solid electronic set point controller coupled with a heavily dived off-board implementation of VPM-B) and my chosen combination has never caused me to thumb a dive. I really don't know what it means to not be able to dive due to a broken rebreather.

Line Squirrel

06-30-2008, 02:29 PM

http://www.customrebreathers.com/SWOEM.pdf

PacketSniffer

06-30-2008, 02:42 PM

http://www.customrebreathers.com/SWOEM.pdf

Keep in mind that the ISC/Shearwater joint venture didn't work so well to everyone's surprise last time. That's just another reason why Leon has been slow on a on-board deco algorithm. I'm sure he feels pressure from the other manufacturers but things must be different for him to move forward with Shearwater....again.

Line Squirrel

06-30-2008, 02:52 PM

I'm optimistic - from everything I hear about Leon being so thorough, if he got burned once I'll bet he was very cautious and pretty confident this will work the second time around.

Scubastud16

06-30-2008, 07:28 PM

I have an understanding of too many stories of divers beating their handsets on hard objects to get them to turn on at depth; handsets turning off at random, handsets rebooting, anomalies in the deco code implementation, and a host of other issues. I'm keeping it simple for now (rock solid electronic set point controller coupled with a heavily dived off-board implementation of VPM-B) and my chosen combination has never caused me to thumb a dive. I really don't know what it means to not be able to dive due to a broken rebreather.

Sounds good to me! Thanks for your help, I was curious as to why that was. With all the deco computers out there, especially some that are WIDELY used, I can understand (and agree with) your logic for running your deco info offboard. That being said, can a VR3 be plugged into a 4th cell to keep track of the loop?

NY-Andy

06-30-2008, 09:47 PM

I'm optimistic - from everything I hear about Leon being so thorough, if he got burned once I'll bet he was very cautious and pretty confident this will work the second time around.

Hey Mike,

First off, Congrats on your new toy!

I don't think Leon got "burned" with Shearwater on the older units. There was a difference in opinions between the principles, nothing more. I currently dive a SW on my KISS, I think you'll be happy.

Regards,
Andy

Line Squirrel

06-30-2008, 10:20 PM

Hey Mike,

First off, Congrats on your new toy!

I don't think Leon got "burned" with Shearwater on the older units. There was a difference in opinions between the principles, nothing more. I currently dive a SW on my KISS, I think you'll be happy.

Regards,
Andy

Andy,

Thanks for the clairification. Maybe I'll be checked out on it when you get back down here.

Mike

Kaneo

06-30-2008, 11:39 PM

i dove with Bill (bird) week before last and he told me he prefers the Meg. we were talking about a late fall or early next year class for CCR. i am very impressed with him. he tought my DPV and Trimix class.

PacketSniffer

07-01-2008, 01:56 AM

That being said, can a VR3 be plugged into a 4th cell to keep track of the loop?

Yes, it most certainly can.

FYI: The Liquivision X1 is expected to have the Po2 link by DEMA as well.

Meg and I just finished another nice trip; downstream (~1,500') and upstream (past 3 sinks) in Promise Sink with the tunes goin' and the scooter hummin'.

NY-Andy

07-01-2008, 04:17 PM

Andy,

Thanks for the clairification. Maybe I'll be checked out on it when you get back down here.

Mike

I'm sure you will be, then you can run circles around me in the cave on CCR this time ;-)

ATB
Andy

swadiver

07-01-2008, 05:39 PM

congrats on now recycleing your breath! i hope you enjoy the new challenge that comes from crossing over. i sure did

SuPrBuGmAn

07-01-2008, 06:01 PM

mmcauliffe - Congrats!

Meg and I just finished another nice trip; downstream (~1,500') and upstream (past 3 sinks) in Promise Sink with the tunes goin' and the scooter hummin'.

I'll bet that was nice, I've gone ~2300' upstream(something like 7 or 8 sinks up), but have only gone like 300' downstream - arg. The 300' I saw was awesome and completely different from the upstream tunnels(although it starts getting a bit whiter/cleaner around 2200'p upstream as it trends deeper!) - I'll bet downstream stays awesome.

scubabrownie

07-01-2008, 06:43 PM

Congrats on the Meg. I just bought a Prism Topaz and have my training lined up with Pete Readey August 4-8. I am extremely excited!!

Brian

Line Squirrel

07-07-2008, 07:26 PM

Oh Boy!! My Meg just left the factory, expected delivery 7/10. Training starts 7/16 :smt026

contender

07-07-2008, 07:51 PM

Oh Boy!! My Meg just left the factory, expected delivery 7/10. Training starts 7/16 :smt026
Mike, no couch diving before your class.:-D Who did you get for the training?

amphipod06

07-07-2008, 07:55 PM

Oh Boy!! My Meg just left the factory, expected delivery 7/10. Training starts 7/16 :smt026

Excellent!!!!

Now you know that we have to go diving together after we get home from Chuuk!!!

Hoo, hoo!!!

Dive safe,

Celia

Line Squirrel

07-07-2008, 07:59 PM

Chad - it was a coin toss between Bird and Gregg Stanton. Both were highly recommended by several people but Gregg is a bit closer so I went with Stanton.

Celia - looking forward to it!!

Dsix36

07-07-2008, 08:09 PM

Have fun with your training. There is nothing like being bubble free.

07-08-2008, 09:48 AM

Mike, no couch diving before your class.:-D

Why not? You can learn a lot about the electronics, scrubber filling, maintenance, etc.

Line Squirrel

07-08-2008, 10:26 AM

contender

07-08-2008, 11:34 AM

LOL - no kidding, I have been doing nothing but reading up. Bozanic's book, the ANDI Meg book, the IANTD student work book, another Meg specific book. I need the real thing in front of me!! If nothing else, I can use the scrubber canister as an ottoman as I read :)

Obviously they are shipping a critical part to my instructor so I can't get it wet until I'm trained. Pretty sure it's the loop.

I had everything except the codes for the electronics a couple of days before my class. Talk about putting the fox in the hen house...but I resisted from eating the hens.

contender

07-08-2008, 11:37 AM

Why not? You can learn a lot about the electronics, scrubber filling, maintenance, etc.

I knew he would be couch diving as most people do when they get new toys, so I was just joking with him....pretty sure you knew that though.

Line Squirrel

07-08-2008, 11:46 AM

I knew he would be couch diving as most people do when they get new toys, so I was just joking with him....pretty sure you knew that though.

yep - lol, pretty sure pictures will surface someday of me sitting on the couch wearing the thing <G>

Mike Edmonston

07-08-2008, 12:10 PM

yep - lol, pretty sure pictures will surface someday of me sitting on the couch wearing the thing <G>

WOW, I'm glad I reread that sentence! At first I thought you wrote "Thong" instead of "thing" :smt081

Happy Bday

07-08-2008, 12:50 PM

Obviously they are shipping a critical part to my instructor so I can't get it wet until I'm trained. Pretty sure it's the loop.
Good thing you didn't post that on Rebreather World :roll:

Line Squirrel

07-08-2008, 12:53 PM

Good thing you didn't post that on Rebreather World :roll:

why?

07-09-2008, 07:45 AM

why?

PM sent.

Line Squirrel

07-10-2008, 07:55 PM

I knew he would be couch diving as most people do when they get new toys, so I was just joking with him....pretty sure you knew that though.

Who does that? Sits on their couch wearing bits & pieces. They even gave me the new hat!

icestac

07-10-2008, 08:01 PM

SEXY!

Does that constitute SCUBA porn?

Congratulations!
~Jeff

amphipod06

07-10-2008, 08:17 PM

Very nice... I bet it smells new too...<sigh>...
So what "critical" component did they leave out?

Scotty's was all shipped to the instructor, that way if anything was not quite right no one could say it was Scott's fault, etc....

I see you got the cordura CL's, was that the only choice?
I think they are bulky and feel cluttered to me...(no offense express or implied, it is a matter of personal preference...)

You look good with the stuff, next post pic's of you diving the thing, I am sure you will loooove the toy!!!

Dive safe,

Celia

PS The $10 k hat.....

Line Squirrel

07-10-2008, 08:18 PM

Very nice... I bet it smells new too...<sigh>...
So what "critical" component did they leave out?

Just the hoses and the DSV.

I ordered the standard CL's before I talked with you & Scott. I kinda wish I had ordered the neo/lower profile ones, these are big!

LOL - $10K hat

MORGAN

07-10-2008, 09:15 PM

SEXY!

Does that constitute SCUBA porn?

Congratulations!
~Jeff

Maybe, but Mike's still got his clothes on - not like those pictures of Sid!

Mike

amphipod06

07-10-2008, 10:01 PM

Just the hoses and the DSV.

I ordered the standard CL's before I talked with you & Scott. I kinda wish I had ordered the neo/lower profile ones, these are big!

LOL - $10K hat

I am sure that maybe down the line you'll be able to pick up a set....
yes, the hat... we have a couple of them in the safe....<G>

See you soon,

Celia

PS BTW, perhaps your instructor has a set of the neoprene ones that you can try just to see what they feel like...

BabyDuck

07-15-2008, 03:47 PM

congrats on the new baby, mike!

mine was lots more expensive but no so good under water.

07-22-2008, 08:29 AM

So Mike, where are you with the class? You have been pretty quiet recently.

Line Squirrel

07-23-2008, 10:29 PM

Yea, we had some very long days. Monday was Blue Grotto in Williston. We had to meet at the shop at 6:00am to get a start on the 2-1/2 hr drive. The day ended after we tore the gear down and washed out the cl's and hoses. We left the shop around 10:00pm

Tuesday we slept in and met at the shop at 8:00am, worked on gear. We had a few equipment issues. I had a hand set hic-up on me, turns out it was operator error. One of the other guys had his solenoid acting up so we got that cleaned up. Didn't get into the water until after 5:00pm. We needed a couple 100ft dives to do the ascent drills (maintain po2). By the time we tore down and rinsed it was after 10:00pm again when we left the shop.

Today was an early day to get to Ginnie. I was up at 3:30am, got to the shop a little after 5:00am (Gregg gave me a key to the shop). I got a jump on reassembling my kit for our last day.

Pretty much just walked in the door from finishing up at Ginnie today. We did the traditional graduation dinner after wards at Floyd's

Eight very very long days. Gregg gives you your monies worth. Lots of diving (10 dives) and lots of bottom time. IANTD requires 500 min's., We did just about 1000. Lots of lectures, we tore our units down and reassembled inspecting/lubing o-rings, solenoid, battery compartments, O2 injector valve, all electrical connections, etc.

Two written tests, the IANTD multiple choice and Gregg's written "fill in the blank" test.

I thought it was a very good class.

Luxrok

07-23-2008, 11:13 PM

Mike,

Glad to hear your in training and making hours. Just to wet your whistle, let me tell you about my week so far. It is a typical week of rebreather cave diving here in Mexico. I know the unit has got to have you chomping at the bit now. ;)

On Tuesday Patrick and I went to The Pit. We were both on Megs. He did a nice leisurely 301ft cave dive to the back of the Wakulla Room and I did a shallower but still note worthy cave dive. I was playing support.

Then today we decided to go and clean up after a failed circuit at Mayan Blue. Patrick had been teaching there over the weekend. We decided the only reasonable way to do the cleanup was to do the traverse from Naharon down to Mayan Blue, pick up the spool and then swim back to Naharon. We were about 20 minutes short of the full traverse when we got the spool. Other then some fireworks in the middle on the return, like a HUGE rock falling out of the ceiling and nearly pinning me, it was an awesome dive.

And for the encore we are going back to The Pit on Saturday so Patrick can attempt the BMP passage. I will play the good friend and dive support for him again. Of course, on the Megs! I figure by the end of this week I will have put about 8 hours on the CCR. Rebreather cave diving is AWESOME! Welcome to the club.

Now about side mounting the meg. Rob Infante in NJ just sidemounted his Prism. Here are some photos of his sidemounted Prism rebreather (http://www.quietdiver.com/100/side-mount-rebreather-a-prism-in-nj.html). You can do the same thing to the Meg. Right now I only have two photos of his CCR. I have more, I just haven't had time to write a post about them. I actually have some photos of the sidemounted meg. I will drop a post on CDF once I get my post together.

Hans