Self Teaching Sidemount

[standingbear56]

Hi Everyone,
I started here with a thread asking about sidemounting with a bad back. After reading the responses here and on other forums, I decided to give it a try. Immediately ran into a small minor problem - no on in my area either teaches nor dives sidemount. Some others in Fla wouldn't teach me sidemount until I became full cave certified, stating it was a requirement of their training agency. Therefore, it was either I teach myself, or stay painfully backmounted. I decided to go with the former.
I purchased the IANTD Side Mount & No Mount Diver manual and workbook, plus downloaded the Armadillo Sidemount Operations Manual from the ADM website - www.AdvancedDiverMagazine.com.
I am NOT saying that anyone should try a new diving skill or equipment configuration without the proper instruction, it is just not available in my area at this time. Plus I have been diving for over 30 years and have been teaching for over 20. Switching regulators isn't a problem as I have already had alot of experience switching Deco bottles. Again, I do not state that any of this takes the place of proper instruction, but again, I really had no choice.
I reconfigured my old Dive Rite TransPac into a Nomad Frankenpac by switching the Rec Wing from outside to inside the soft backplate. I also added the butt plate which I had purchased awhile ago for experimenting ways to sling deco bottles.
I first step was to try my LP 95s slung like I normally would do deco bottles - clipped off on my shoulder and hip D rings. My trim was good, but the tanks positioned themselves too low. They were both beneath me when I was horizontal. I must have looked like a sub aqua pontoon boat! :smt081 However I was amazed at how easy I fell into proper trim and guess what - NO BACK PAIN! With twin 95s yet! Before this, I could hardly handle a single Al 80!
Next step was to correctly sling the bottles. I set up my bungies al la Armadillo style (hence the term Nomad FrankenPac) and used two XL snaps on each bottle so that I could reach the butt plate. (OK, at 325 lbs, I'm am a little on the large side) I now see very clearly why this is the proper procedure. My bottles fell right into place, although my H valves dug into my armpits a bit. Yes I am loosing the H valves before the next test. Again, great trim and great streamlining. I'm really fast turning into a sidemount junkie. Once I get the proper training and experience, I want to be able to teach this method to other's with bad backs, many of whom have given up diving because of the pain.
Now I know that any qualified sidemount instructor could have corrected my million mistakes from the start, but I have to admit, the learning curve isn't bad at all. I do have a few questions though:
1) The sidemount configuration is great for being trimmed horizontally or slightly heads down. What about for resting on the surface. It definitely keeps wanting to plant my face back into the water. Any solutions to that?
2) Does anyone know of any SM instructors in the area of Sullivan or Orange County NY?
Thanks in advance for any advice. I'm open to all comments and suggestions.
George

[SuPrBuGmAn]

There are other alternatives to getting a Sidemount "Instructor" to teach you. There are sidemount mentors out there that might help you. I believe Edd Sorenson(cabo on this forum) offers a sidemount mentoring at a price. IIRC it isn't a class per se, but a mentorship only and doesn't give you a card - albeit you'll get the aid of someone who can teach you his findings after years and years of experience diving sidemount exclusively. Certainly there are others that offer this kind of service without a card.

Whichever way you choose, goodluck! :D

[FW]

The NSS-CDS will let you take cavern in sidemount. You have to use a sidemount instructor, and request a waiver from the training chairman. A bad back is a good enough reason.

[RN]

First, I'll second Edd as a great mentor. However, most (if not all) of his mentorships have been in caves.


Now I know that any qualified sidemount instructor could have corrected my million mistakes from the start, but I have to admit, the learning curve isn't bad at all. I do have a few questions though:
1) The sidemount configuration is great for being trimmed horizontally or slightly heads down. What about for resting on the surface. It definitely keeps wanting to plant my face back into the water. Any solutions to that?

You have too much air in your wing. Let some air out and lean back. You should be able to stay vertical on the surface.


Also, do you have 2 XL snaps on the bottom of the bottles, or one on the bottom and one on the neck? How about posting a pic of your tanks and rig here? I don't know of anyone in your area that dives sidemount, but with pics we could probably mentor you on the 'net... :D How tall are you? I'm 6' and have tried 95s, but they're a little too short for me.

Sidemount is not difficult to do. I never took a class. I did have the benefit of having Edd to bounce questions off, but didn't do any dives with him. I'd say it took less than a dozen dives to get my trim in sidemount. It took me less than a month to break down my doubles!

[akcaver]

Not too many people take classes for sidemount, at least that I know of. Most people are mentored into it by a buddy (me). Your best bet is to just keep looking at posts on this forum about sidemounting, as there have been alot of them on configuration, gas switching, etc. I have a problem keeping my head out of the water in sidemount, but its not a big problem because im always in a small spring and get out fairly quick. Nearly everyone who started sidemounting more than a year ago has a "frankenpac", so dont worry, its pretty standard (and thats saying anything in sidemount is standard!)

Good luck and keep posting questions, theres good people on this forum

[standingbear56]

Thanks for all the input, it's greatly appreciated! As far as the XL snaps, I have a Dive Rite stage bottle handle on each bottle. The top has the regular XL snap, but on the bottom I have 2 XL snaps linked together for a longer reach. Without this, I wouldn't be able to reach the rail on the butt plate. I'll also be trying less air on the surface. Right now, that's the biggest glitch I have - face down on the surface. I'll post a few pics as soon as I can - as they say a picture is worth a thousand words (and will probably save me a thousand plus mistakes:smt081) Ed if you are out there, drop me a line. I'd love to get together for some mentoring if the logistics are doable.
Thanks again everyone, I need all the help I can get! You definitely have a convert here!
George

[RN]

Okay, that explains a little. Get rid of the stage rigging. You don't need that. You can put a clip around the neck (I have one), but it's only necessary for redundancy. The bungee holds the neck in your pits. Get a couple of cam bands and put them on the bottom. On 95s I'd go within 3-4 inches of the bottom. With longer tanks you could go 5-6. Take about 6 inches of thick line (longer may be better for you) and fold it in 1/2. Tie the loose ends into a knot with the knot close to the ends. Loop the line through your snap ring (put the loop end through the ring and put the knot through the loop. Get a belt slide and put it on your cam band putting the line entrapped between the belt and the center of the slide. This will hold your snap in place. You can make the line as long as you need to to be able to reach it. I would try to make it as small as possible. I will take some photos later before and during my dive and post them here for you.

[RN]

Here are some quick photos before I leave the house. This is from one of my 80s that I sidemount in:

http://www.cavediver.net/forum/gallery/files/1/4/9/2/dive_gear_004.jpghttp://www.cavediver.net/forum/gallery/files/1/4/9/2/dive_gear_005.jpg

The 2nd photo shows my neck clip which I use as a backup should one of my bungees break. It does nothing to support the tank when the bungee is in place. I'll get some in water photos later.

[350xfire]

Can anyone show their hose routing configuration. I seem to have problems with that aspect of it.

[RN]

I was going to take some pics yesterday, but I ended up doing a late dive and finishing after dark. I'll get some today.

FWIW, before yesterday I had a 7' hose on the right bottle and a 34" hose on the left. I routed the 7' hose just like in a set of backmount doubles and the 34" hose came around my neck to the right side, also similar to BM. It worked out okay. I tried just bringing the 7' hose up off my tank without wrapping it around my neck, but it didn't feel right and I had too much hose left to try to bungee it neatly along my right tank. I keep a hose keeper on my tanks to secure my the excess length of my 7' hose and to keep both hoses secured when I'm moving them to and from the water.

Yesterday I tried something different. I placed my 7' hose on the left tank and a 22" hose on the right. The 7' hose comes up my left side around my neck. The 22" just comes up and the reg is necklaced. A couple of reasons for doing this are to remove one hose from behind my neck and to get the long hose from being routed across my chest. The jury is still out on this, but I think I'm going to end up keeping it this way. The funny thing is I looked down at my right gauge a couple of times and thought, "Wow, I'm hardly breathing!" Well, I was breathing off my 7' hose, which used to be on my right bottle but was now on my left. I finally figured it out and checked my left hose to see I had been breathing! I only went 100psi past my normal switch pressure...

[Line Squirrel]

The 2nd photo shows my neck clip which I use as a backup should one of my bungees break. It does nothing to support the tank when the bungee is in place. I'll get some in water photos later.

I used to do this too as a back-up to the bungees. I just recently switched to putting the brass rings on the tank neck and carrying a big double ender in my pocket but.... every once in awhile I get my finger caught under the brass ring and feel like I've just about broke my finger a couple times loading tanks in and out of my van or the water. Jumping up and down waiving my hand in the air, cuss like a drunk sailor so I'll probably go back to what I had before, very similar to what Rob (RN) has.

[FW]

Can anyone show their hose routing configuration. I seem to have problems with that aspect of it.
If you use a 7' hose, and right handed regulators, RN's way is probably best.

I use non-handed regulators (Poseidon Xstream), and I can use short hoses on both regs. I usually have one reg with a 7' hose, and I have it on the right side, with the excess under snoopy loops (elastic bands).

My SPGs are on 6" hoses, coming off the reg toward me, so they don't catch on stuff as much.

[skip]

On the left side tank I use a standard length inflator hose and bring it up behind my shoulder and down the front to connect to the inflator. Some use a shorter hose and bring it up the front (under left arm), thus making the corrugated hose curve up like a scorpion tail. Mine lays flat like they do in back mount. The left tank regulator hose points down alongside the tank then curves up my chest and the second stage attaches to the left shoulder d-ring on the shoulder strap (when not in use). Some put this reg on a necklace - few will wrap it around neck first in back mount fashion. I use a swivel at the second stage too - it is so much more comfortable for me that way.

On the right side tank I use a short inflator hose (15") for the drysuit inflation. The right side regulator is on a long hose (7') and looped under rubber bands on the tank (as FW said). It is also clipped on the right shoulder d-ring when not in use.

SPG's on both tanks are 6" hoses and lay downward and flat against tanks. I must pick them up and bend them to read pressure. Some will tie them to valve so they are bent up all the time, and some increase length to 9" so the bend is more relaxed. I like them down flat against the tank.

With this routing the two regulator hoses are all that are sometimes looped low and need to be tucked (or retucked when long hose works up through bungees a bit too much). but mostly the hoses stay tucked along sides (not in front of chest) and out of the way, but this depends on just which ports you use on first stage.

but all this is just me and i may change it all up any time!

-skip

[RN]

I have 6" HP hoses on both SPGs and they are both positioned across my chest right under my dry suit inflator. My LP inflator hoses are the same length - R side goes to dry suit, L side goes to corrugated hose, which comes off my butt dump rather than over my shoulder.

[Jay]

I am glad to see the 7' bungee'd tank hose is becoming more common. I also use the left reg around the neck on a bungee (39" hose) My right reg comes up from the bungeed 7' and is clipped to my right shoulder d-ring with a connection long enough to allow me to use it while still clipped. I can spit it out and switch to the other reg without waving my light too much when scootering.
It's hard to explain, but I keep my tanks very snug to my body. The valves are up almost even with my shoulder when horizontal. I can keep the valves in front of me even if I go upside down. On the surface I can just raise my arms/shoulders a little and my tanks will move slightly towards the back and I can float heads up. I did spend a lot of time in my pool adjusting everything, including different length bungies along the wings and the length of every hose/connector.
Of course, I just got my 85's hydroed, so I have to adjsut them again.

Oh, and if you plan on scootering, make sure you have a two inch crotch strap added to your rig. :smt022 :yawinkle:

[FW]

Oh, and if you plan on scootering, make sure you have a two inch crotch strap added to your rig. :smt022 :yawinkle:
And good strong bungies. Mine were getting old, and on the scooter, the tanks splayed out, acting like a brake.

[standingbear56]

Hi Everyone,
Ok, I have dove close to 300 feet on tri-mix, but I still can't figure out my digital camera! OY! Anyway, here is some views of my Nomad Trans FrankenPac. I have the bungees clipped on to side D rings so they are easy to see for the pics and are easier to get to. About the only thing different is I'm relocating the buckle from a center position to a side position. I didn't think of that until I hit a rock in the river during a current dive and it popped open. No crisis, just an inconvience. Anyway, any comments or criticisms are welcome. I've already learned alot from this forum, but I have many more lessons to go. I do agree though that sidemounting is a great way to go.
Regards and Safe Diving,
George

[aw]

Awe!! Yur gonna burn in hell for self-teaching sidemount. haha just kidding. been there, done that. [The self-teaching sidemount, not burnin in hell.]

[Webmaster]

Hi Everyone,
Ok, I have dove close to 300 feet on tri-mix, but I still can't figure out my digital camera! OY! Anyway, here is some views of my Nomad Trans FrankenPac. I have the bungees clipped on to side D rings so they are easy to see for the pics and are easier to get to. About the only thing different is I'm relocating the buckle from a center position to a side position. I didn't think of that until I hit a rock in the river during a current dive and it popped open. No crisis, just an inconvience. Anyway, any comments or criticisms are welcome. I've already learned alot from this forum, but I have many more lessons to go. I do agree though that sidemounting is a great way to go.
Regards and Safe Diving,
George

It's hard to tell from the little pics, but there are a few things that you might be able to do to streamline. I'm assuming those are weight pouches on your hips? If possible I'd ditch those, your tanks should ride better without them. If you stiil need extra weight you can put some on the tanks and some up under the wing where it's out of the way.

I'd also try running that bungee under the harness and over the wing to give a little less opportunity to catch on stuff.

I haven't actually done it yet, but I'm going to experiment with a new crotch strap design. I'm going to sew two pieces to the bottom of the wing shell, and run them back in across the butt like on a climbing harness. I'm going to have a short piece of 2" webbing coming off the front with a large d-ring, and just buckle together.

I'm thinking that should both help keep my wing pulled down lengthwise, and keep it from flapping up.

Marbry

[tflaris]

Can anyone show their hose routing configuration. I seem to have problems with that aspect of it.

I wrap my long hose with a bungie or you can wear it around your neck under your canister. I do not wear a cannister on my belt so I wrap mine. The inflator hose attachment I like to take over my shoulder being that I am using the Nomad with the inflator hanging down from the shoulder. Both regs have the 90 degree fittings from Dive Rite but originally had swivels but had a couple of failures. Each reg has a bolt snap and I attached it the d rings when not in use. I use the armadillo manual to mount cam straps and position of the clips. I use 6" long SPG hoses for that lollipop affect for my SPG's. Drysuit inflation from either bottle.

Hope this helps.

[standingbear56]

I am glad to see the 7' bungee'd tank hose is becoming more common. I also use the left reg around the neck on a bungee (39" hose) My right reg comes up from the bungeed 7' and is clipped to my right shoulder d-ring with a connection long enough to allow me to use it while still clipped.

I'm doing a same thing, as I used to dive Hogarthian Style. Not exact enough to be DIR, but definitely a righteous scab! :smt081. Anyway, I have my 7' hose bungee'd on my right tank and clipped off to my right upper (shoulder) D-ring when not in use. My left reg which has a 38" hose (Poseidon) comes straight up from under my arm, NOT looping around my neck. Two reasons for this: 1) the loop around my neck tended to float up and in several instances got snagged on tree branches during low vis dives, and 2) I personally don't feel comfortable having anything wrapped around my neck. I also feel that coming up from under my left arm helps in streamlining. My entire back area is as clean as I can make it, and I've gone under a few tree root strainers without any snag problems.
An idea I'm toying with is this: I'm thinking of attaching the bottom loop of my 7' to one of those heavy duty retractors. The idea, at least in theory is that when I need it, it will be right there, but when not needed it will retract back in place. The reason I thought about this was when practicing S drills with my BM buddies, once I pulled out the 7' hose to share air, it was a PIA to put back under the bungees. This is why Hogarthian loops it around the neck, so after use, you simply re loop it. Can't get simpler than that. If anyone has other ideas, I'm all ears.
Safe diving,
George

[standingbear56]

Hi Everyone,
OK, I'm back with an update. :clapper First of all, I want to thank everyone for all the help I've received here, it's greatly appreciated.
Since posting the pics, I have changed over to the DR 13" bungees. They are much stronger than the ones I was using, and IMHO it's a much cleaner set up. On a personal note, I like the idea of clipping off on the bungees rather than looping them over the valve. While I never had a problem with the looped bungees slipping off, clipping off gives me more piece of mind. (OK, I'll say it first - WHAT MIND!) :smt081 The tanks ride great with this set up, and my trim just falls into place.
RN gave me the good advice of loosing the stage rigging. I tried it that way, but when going off of a boat or dock, the stage rigging made it easier for me to grab/or someone to hand down the cylinders. so I've put the stage rigging back on. RN was absolutely right in saying it's not needed, but personally for me at least, it helps.
Webmaster gave some good advice about loosing the weight pouches. I haven't had a chance to do this yet, but I will be soon. The ongoing problem is that when I'm on the surface, I still get planted face down if I use enough air to keep my head above water. If I loose enough air to be vertical, then I'm below the surface. I'm planning on using the weight from the pouches on the butts of the cylinders. Hopefully this will counterbalance the face planting. I'm assuming (and YES, I know what that means) :smt081 that as the cylinders become more buoyant, the butts are helping to pull my backside up along with the wing, ending up in a beautiful face plant.
As far as the Trans Pac to Nomad conversion, it's been good overall. I'm still using a Rec Wing, as finances won't let me go to a proper Nomad wing. I'm also looking to try an Armadillo as some of the other rigs if and when I can come across them.
I'm still a work in progress with a lot more to learn, but at least I'm on my way. Again, I'd like to thank everyone for all their advice. It's been greatly appreciated and I'm looking forward to more.
Thanks,
George

[standingbear56]

OK, I had a senior moment. I am also need to work on hose routing. I still look like Medusa is making out with my tanks! As i said, I'm still a work in progress.
Take care,
George

[ed pavey]

Thanks for all the input, it's greatly appreciated! As far as the XL snaps, I have a Dive Rite stage bottle handle on each bottle. The top has the regular XL snap, but on the bottom I have 2 XL snaps linked together for a longer reach. Without this, I wouldn't be able to reach the rail on the butt plate. I'll also be trying less air on the surface. Right now, that's the biggest glitch I have - face down on the surface. I'll post a few pics as soon as I can - as they say a picture is worth a thousand words (and will probably save me a thousand plus mistakes:smt081) Ed if you are out there, drop me a line. I'd love to get together for some mentoring if the logistics are doable.
Thanks again everyone, I need all the help I can get! You definitely have a convert here!
George

Dive Rite has a 4XL Butt Plate... Thanks to Jim and I.....

[standingbear56]

Dive Rite has a 4XL Butt Plate... Thanks to Jim and I.....

Guess us "Big Boys" need to stick together!:smt081 How much bigger is the 4XL Butt Plate than their standard one? It'll probably make my "job" a lot easier.
Talk to you soon,
George

[Webmaster]

I started routing both my regs and SPG back down along the tanks. This leaves room to stick the LP hose on each where it needs to go for each side.

The regs I just loop back up between me and the tank. To retain the regs I'm temporarily running them under the chest strap until I get around to doing some sewing for a better option.

The inflator I'm running behind and over the shoulder since I added a small bungee from the inflator to the waist to keep it in place. The drysuit inflator, I could probably use a shorter hose. I found that taking one loop around the tank neck left just enough hose to run across to the conection on my chest.

This works really well, it keeps both regs in very close and to the sides. Just slide one up, slide the other down. Makes switching regs with one hand very easy since there's nothing to clip off. I use normal 'handed' regs (hose on the right) and it works fine with that.

This leaves my chest pretty clean, everything stays in tight and in place much better.

I do need to move my waist buckle over to one side though. I've scraped this open several times.

Marbry

[Me]

I'm coming into this one a little late, but I gotta say my buddy and I tried the Nomad buttplate and after only a few dives of futching around highly annoyed and frustrated, we went back to the Rennaker buttplate from our original setup. It was far easier to hook/unhook the bottles to the Rennaker, then it was to the Nomad. Plus there was far less side to side play of the bottles too.

Of course, the Rennaker plate is a custom made model direct from his garage.....but the darn thing works well for us! Just proves sidemount rigging is a purely personal process.

Therefore, the Nomad buttplate has been tossed in the "miscellaneous gear pile" that will someday find a home somewhere, meanwhile gathering cobwebs.

[Slüdge]

Just proves sidemount rigging is a purely personal process.

And this differs from backmount in what way? :smt017