Legal Subpoenas

[Bill Rotella]

Caution posters, please be careful of what you post. Unfortunately we live in a litigious society and you may get a subpoena. Just because we have internet names, don't mean that you can be crude, rude, slander, and do unappropriate postings. Please remember that this web site is not a place to learn how to cavern or cave dive. This web site will contain many comments, stories, reports, and opinions. People that post should be careful, responsible, and mature, both in their posts and how they use anything they read here. Moderators do not monitor the accuracy of the content of threads posted here, and the opinions posted herein are personal opinions, and as such can be misleading and/or inaccurate. Entry into any overhead environment without proper training and equipment can get one killed. Opinions and comments posted onto this forum are those of the author only and may not reflect those of the forum administrators, moderators, or sponsors. Entry into any overhead environment without proper training and equipment can get you killed.



Bill Rotella

[JoeyP]

I understand where you are coming from but it is pretty sad when you have to worry about getting sued because you have an opinion. I don't think this is what our founding fathers had in mind.

Joe Citelli

[Genesis]

Big difference between a subpoena (show up for either a deposition or a court date and tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth - that is, you're a witness) and a summons.

The latter is the "we're suing you" thing, although it sometimes goes by different names.

The former I used to get all the time when I ran my company (usually for some document or another due to something one of my "customers" was alleged to have done) and aren't a big deal. After all, you shouldn't have a problem with the truth, right? :roll:

The latter is another matter. Unfortunately the kind of disclaimer than Bill posted is all too necessary these days - witness the stickers on a ladder ("you could fall off and die" - duh!) or even better, the ones on a METAL ladder ("this ladder conducts electricity - do not use near power lines" - DUH!)

It should be obvious to all that intentionally donning mechanical equipment to enable one to breathe underwater (something only fish can do otherwise) is an intentional act that puts one's life in danger, particularly if that equipment is misused, fails, or simply runs out of supplies (e.g. gas).

Unfortunately we live in a country where the obvious forms the basis for lawsuits. In this particular hobby of ours (diving, generally, not restricted to overheads) I think its well past the time that we need the equivalent of the "Sportsman Act" as related to hunting, the "Equestrian Act" as relating to horses, or, for that matter, section 375.251 as it relates to access to land for which no fee is charged (e.g. someone allowing you to hike, or ride a motorcycle or ATV, on their land without you paying an entrance fee.)

(I ain't a lawyer, but I did run a corporation that was very much 'in the public eye" for more than a decade and had to deal with this "stuff" as part of my duties....)

[DeWayne]

Okay I'll bite, who got burned?

What really stinks is that it is typically the BS cases that garner the publicity and big bucks while legitimate cases suffer. Immagine suing a company for serving you hot coffee and winning while companies such as Ford get away with blaming their defects on the inabilities of their customers. :evil:

[JoeyP]

Big difference between a subpoena (show up for either a deposition or a court date and tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth - that is, you're a witness) and a summons.


You are correct. But if you get a subpoena it usually means someone is getting sued and all to often it is frivolous and that sucks.

Sometimes I think Burr and Hamilton had the right idea. :twisted:
I bet it would cut down on the frivolous suits..... :wink:

[nwade]

Bill could be suggesting that lawyers for either side might be trolling :smt096 the waters looking for potential 'expert' witnesses re tragic events.

[Capt Tim]

No posting messages intended solely for solicitation. :blackbar1

[Jay]

:blackbar1

Are you inferring that they will be taking action in a case?

Jay Wells

[Capt Tim]

Not inferring anything, just making an observation and offering no opinions. I'll wait for the accident analysis. Make any opinions or conclusions you want.

You might also be interested in this.

http://www.lancasteronline.com/pages/news/local/6/10318

[caver]

HAVE YOU BEEN HURT IN AN ACCIDENT? BIT BY A DOG? STRUCK BY AN UN-INSURED DRIVER? SLANDERED ON THE FORUM? WRONGED BY AN EX-WIFE? HAVE YOU HAD A REACTION TO A MEDICATION? A 4 HOUR ERECTION FROM ######? PAID FOR A DIVE CLASS AND NEVER RECEIVED A C-CARD? HAVE YOU EVER HAD ONE OF YOUR DIVE BUDDIES TALK BAD ABOUT YA?-------CALL 1-800-EAT-S#&T

The Law Firm of DEWEY CHEATEM AND HOWE ;-)

[Genesis]

BTW, here's the act that Florida has for such "no charge" access rules..

375.251 Limitation on liability of persons making available to public certain areas for recreational purposes without charge.--

(1) The purpose of this act is to encourage persons to make available to the public land, water areas and park areas for outdoor recreational purposes by limiting their liability to persons going thereon and to third persons who may be damaged by the acts or omissions of persons going thereon.

(2)(a) An owner or lessee who provides the public with a park area or other land for outdoor recreational purposes owes no duty of care to keep that park area or land safe for entry or use by others, or to give warning to persons entering or going on that park area or land of any hazardous conditions, structures, or activities thereon. An owner or lessee who provides the public with a park area or other land for outdoor recreational purposes shall not by providing that park area or land:

1. Be presumed to extend any assurance that such park area or land is safe for any purpose,

2. Incur any duty of care toward a person who goes on that park area or land, or

3. Become liable or responsible for any injury to persons or property caused by the act or omission of a person who goes on that park area or land.

(b) This section shall not apply if there is any charge made or usually made for entering or using such park area or land, or any part thereof, or if any commercial or other activity, whereby profit is derived from the patronage of the general public, is conducted on such park area or land, or any part thereof.

(3)(a) An owner of land or water area leased to the state for outdoor recreational purposes owes no duty of care to keep that land or water area safe for entry or use by others, or to give warning to persons entering or going on that land or water of any hazardous conditions, structures, or activities thereon. An owner who leases land or water area to the state for outdoor recreational purposes shall not by giving such lease:

1. Be presumed to extend any assurance that such land or water area is safe for any purpose,

2. Incur any duty of care toward a person who goes on the leased land or water area, or

3. Become liable or responsible for any injury to persons or property caused by the act or omission of a person who goes on the leased land or water area.

(b) The foregoing applies whether the person going on the leased land or water area is an invitee, licensee, trespasser, or otherwise.

(4) This act does not relieve any person of liability which would otherwise exist for deliberate, willful or malicious injury to persons or property. The provisions hereof shall not be deemed to create or increase the liability of any person.

(5) The term "outdoor recreational purposes" as used in this act shall include, but not necessarily be limited to, hunting, fishing, swimming, boating, camping, picnicking, hiking, pleasure driving, nature study, water skiing, motorcycling, and visiting historical, archaeological, scenic, or scientific sites.

http://www.flsenate.gov/Statutes/index.cfm?mode=View%20Statutes&App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=CH0375/SEC251.HTM

Is it time for such a law specifically applying to recreational diving in all its forms?]

[resolute]

With all of the dive industry presence in the State of FLA, and the importance of diving (in all its forms - but of course, mostly recreational..) to the state's economy has there ever been a full court press to extend this over to specifically include diving, as with the other activities that anyone knows of - and, if so, what happened?

JB

[Capt Tim]

No posting messages intended solely for solicitation. :blackbar1

DUH!!! The post was not a solicitation; I have no connection with this firm or anyone involved. My intention was to provide information supporting Bill’s caution on posting. The site contains background information on Michael Nast, one of the 2 deceased cave divers in the recent Mexico tragedy. It also identifies his mother & father as partners in the same law firm. If you read thru the site you would see in the “Statement of Practice” exactly what the firm specializes in. As such, Bill’s caution is well founded.

[surlynkid]

is pending litigation why we have not heard a single word out of :blackbar1 ? i thought this was her trip, her group, and her guided dive. i have not seen one mention of :blackbar1 on any board. :?:

[Neptuno]

hey this is almost looking like the tv in US where they put the black strips on girls tities or guys thingys... :roll:

I still dont know what happened but for the disclaimer, looks like it sucks

[JohnTodd]

is pending litigation why we have not heard a single word out of :blackbar1 ? i thought this was her trip, her group, and her guided dive. i have not seen one mention of :blackbar1 on any board. :?:


BINGO! Also provides some insight as to why the mexico thread got quiet quickly. In fact, I can't even find it on this forum any longer.

John Todd

[Rich]

JohnTodd.
BINGO! Also provides some insight as to why the mexico thread got quiet quickly. In fact, I can't even find it on this forum any longer.

John Todd


Hmmm, that is wierd..... I just had a look for it also and couldn't find it.....insert "Twilight Zone" music here.....as the plot thickens and conspiracy theories abound!!

Well, at least nothing's changed in the cave community :-D

Safe diving,

Rich

[rblackburn]

http://cavediver.net/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=675