Back or Side Mount? [Archive] - Cave Diver's Forum

skip

04-08-2008, 04:11 PM

I've been fiddling with sidemount for a good long while now and have tried the nomad, the transpac, the armadillo, the jeff hancock, and the paul smith and did not like any of them. So I made my own with a few features of each that seemed to work ok. Well, I've been diving it this year, almost exlusively, trying to figure out hose hose routing, knob/valve placement, whether to use a long hose or not, etc.

Anyway, a couple of days ago, I returned to backmount. I am planning to take some classes this summer and they are all backmount classes, so I really need to get back into backmount skills (valve drills, carrying multiple stages, air-sharing, etc.).

Well, I finally arrived at the point where the backmount is pain in the neck, the back, the arms, the legs, and the whole dang body - including the brain too! I never before understood what it was in the common statement along the lines of "once you go sidemount, you'll never backmount again." Sidemount was ok, but not that ok.

Until now. I still do not know what it is, but I do know that gearing up and walking in backmount is no fun at all compared to sidemount. I also really like having all my gear "up front." I took off the backmount and put it back on during the dive, and what a major hassle that was. I bent like a pretzel to do the valve drills. I am not a happy backmounter anymore and now I'm thinking of not taking the classes because of my awakening to the joys of sidemount. I don't feel like I have enough experience to take the classes in sidemount (surely there is an instructor who will teach them in sidemount), except for the fact that I was really looking forward to being taught by this instructor and have put nonrefundable money down on the classes.

I don't have any questions and am not looking for suggestions. I'm just airing my grievance and whining about "having" to backmount to get some classes done (e.g., intro to cave instructor, trimix). Hey, I do have a question....For those who switch between side and back mount, is there some secret to getting comfortable with both or is there always a "switch-over: cost? How many people switch up how often?

-skip

SLIM

04-08-2008, 04:19 PM

Iswitch all the time, depending on the dive plan. If it is a deep dive to the lower restrition in CB I would rather be in BM. If it is just playing in the upper seciton SM. I find that so many have gone to large tanks. Been using 95's and 85's for years and they arnt to bad. If I am teaching a cave class I wear BM. I have gotten used to my nomad to wear it BM or SM. The ablity to change back and forth is not hard for me. I do wonder why so many hav eot have 130's on their back, so they can go further I guess. A stage does a great job and I guess my SAC is alright. Just never seen a need to use big tanks all the time. If the cave is a large and open cave I like BM.

bet if you go to BM for a while, you will get the feel back and if you do short stents of BM then SM the ability to switch back and forth will be so much easyer.

SLIM

04-08-2008, 04:24 PM

I'm playing with sidemount for purely orthopaedic reasons. I have no desire to do tight or snug stuff, but at almost 47 years of age, the ortho issues keep mounting. Besides that, backmount is just what you stated....a pain in the back!

I just got back from a week in NFL on 3/30 and did not do sidemount as I've not perfected it yet for me for overheard....it's getting there, just not there yet. I did do backmount the entire week, but my dive buddy put my tanks in and out of the water for me since I just had knee surgery on 12/28/07. It was nice not having to go to bed with a hot water bottle at night the entire week! But it sure is a pain to don 95's while standing in Merritt's Mill Pond muck. Talk about pile driving! My rockboots were full of smuck after every dive......

So, I really have nothing to add to your post of any modicum of wisdom, but I do feel as you do.

Lori

MDS

04-08-2008, 06:02 PM

Line Squirrel

04-08-2008, 06:11 PM

Matt - Looks a lot like the Dragon Harness from the UK.

MDS

04-08-2008, 06:23 PM

Matt - Looks a lot like the Dragon Harness from the UK.
It's much better than the Dragon - I have a Dragon Harness too but favour the farrworld improvement. The D - Rings for the cylinder attachment points on the Explorer are on the hips, they are around the back on the Dragon. The farrworld harness has also dispensed with the arm strap arrangement that was previously on the Dragon and can also be attached to a wing

as I mentioned cylinders are easier to don/doff on the Explorer and you can pull the cylinders away from your body by the taps to give you a better view of your spg's

I could be tempted to sell my old dragon harness!!!

Arnold Mesiser

04-08-2008, 07:09 PM

Those that like sidemount I can recommend the Explorer 1 harness from Farrworld. They are very simple to don/doff and to remove/replace cylinders whilst diving

I only post as I have 2 of them and very happy with them

If interested more can be found here www.farrworld.co.uk/acatalog/equipment.html

Ta, Matt S

I will second the Farr harness!!! Very well made and comfortable (I changed the bungees to a larger size as per Duncan Price) Very nice to use although in my case our caves are either super low bedding planes or very shallow for the most part so using the drysuit for buoyancy is not a big deal.In some cases buoyancy is not even needed (belly crawls).The harness works really nice with tanks when you wrap the bungee around the valve and hook it to the chest d ring as opposed to the loop around the valve handle only YMMV

04-08-2008, 10:26 PM

MDS

04-09-2008, 06:36 AM

Although I use backmounted twinsets for all my technical diving I have yet to use them in a cave. I have found SM config to be very comfortable when diving in open water also....and far more streamlined, I have also noticed a big drop in my gas consumption when using sidemounts too.

skip

04-09-2008, 08:38 AM

After going sidemount, I think I did 2 dives in backmount before breaking down my doubles. I haven't looked back. There are just too many advantages to sidemount that aren't there with backmount.

What classes are you planning on taking? Why won't your instructor let you do them in sidemount? Some agency standards tend to be pretty vague on the student kit...

I'm pretty sure sidemount would be ok for the classes. However, the problem is with me! I am not that comfortable in sidemount yet. My plan was to get the sidemount figured out for cave diving and sump diving, but retain backmount for the big open florida caves and the classes. Now it seems that backmount is not worth the trouble and I'll maybe postpone the classes another year to give me more time in sidemount first. On the other hand, like Slim noted, maybe I just need more time in backmount and then sidemount and then backmount....until switching is easy too?

However it does seem that there are not very many who switch back and forth - your story of "breaking down the doubles" and "never looked back" is the more common it seems.

-skip

sskasser

04-09-2008, 08:51 AM

Depending on what classes you are taking, consider that if you're going to be doing "those" dives in SM in real life, it probably makes sense to go ahead and take the class in SM, now or next year. A certain instructor of mine, knowing I have zero interest in BM, insisted I take my Adv Trimix class in SM because "that's how you'll be diving anyway". Yeah, it was a little more challenging to manage all the bottles in SM, but it was the right call.

Come on down, these "big open Florida caves" are great either way!

jdsffa

04-09-2008, 09:11 AM

I dive both side mount and backmount. I origanally went side mount for orthipedic reasons as well( eaiser on the back) but through all my playing and tweeking on my sidemount gear, I still dive back mount regulary. I like side mount for certin caves or if I dont feel good that day. I also still really enjoy a back mount dive in the bigger caves and for staged dives. I think it is just a matter of diving both enough to stay comfortable. One thing I did apply to my back mount diving from side mount, is dont carry tanks farther than you have to. I gear up then place my back mount tank in a wagon I got, then pull them to the site, place them in the water and put them on there it takes longer but once you get good at it, it is worth it.

chimie007

04-09-2008, 09:21 AM

Skip, good question/discussion but I'm afraid there is no easy fix.

I broke down my double after my second SM dive and I haven't put a double back on since then. I dive SM primary because I find it so much more comfortable and better suited for cave diving. I have/had no problem carrying big doubles to the water.

I must say that I'm no looking forward to boat diving since backmount is really better suited for boat diving. Although SM is doable, boat layout and hot drop are really better suited for backmount.

aainslie

04-09-2008, 11:20 AM

Skip, I use both. I find BM easier getting on and off boats, and only use SM on boats when I have a specific goal, e.g. penetration onto small rooms on a wreck. I've found it really easy. It's expensive though. I don't like continually switching lights, hoses etc back and forth so I have two COMPLETE setups so nothing needs to be moved on each dive. This makes sure I don't forget stuff, and I find each setup completely comfortable.

In FL I ONLY use SM. Again this is for logistic reasons - a) I can't see anywhere where BM would be easier logistically and b) I am genuinely way happier at ANY depth in SM than BM.

Jerry

04-09-2008, 12:13 PM

akcaver

04-09-2008, 12:20 PM

Skip,
I went through the same thing about a year ago, and ended up completely switching to sidemount. I wasent happy with it for about 20 dives, but then I got used to it and am still finding that I get more and more comfortable each dive. It just takes time and dedication to get as close to perfection as you can. My buddies say I look better and better each time, and Ive made close to 100 dives since then. I had to switch back to backmount for a course, and it was a pain diving that way after being used to SM. I felt very awkward and uncomfortable.

Stick with it and it will feel natural shortly enough.
-Andrew

04-09-2008, 04:10 PM

I'm pretty sure sidemount would be ok for the classes. However, the problem is with me! I am not that comfortable in sidemount yet. My plan was to get the sidemount figured out for cave diving and sump diving, but retain backmount for the big open florida caves and the classes. Now it seems that backmount is not worth the trouble and I'll maybe postpone the classes another year to give me more time in sidemount first. On the other hand, like Slim noted, maybe I just need more time in backmount and then sidemount and then backmount....until switching is easy too?

However it does seem that there are not very many who switch back and forth - your story of "breaking down the doubles" and "never looked back" is the more common it seems.

-skip

If you do nothing but sidemount diving for a while it shouldn't take you a year to get used to it. I finished my Trimix course in sidemount after only a couple dozen dives in sidemount. And this was in a cave. I felt much more comfortable in sidemount even at that point. I think handling stage bottles is really no different. I haven't gone to hanging them behind me yet, but I've played around with it. That will take some time to get perfected. In the meantime I stage in front, though. I even just came back from Mexico and sidemounted the whole time and only went to caves on the bigger side.

apitkin

04-09-2008, 06:59 PM

I am with Aainsle on this; I use the configuration that fits the cave. I will argue with anybody that SM is the BEST for cave diving. For some caves yes; all caves, not hardly. Many caves are vertically oriented; are you going to swim sideways for the entire dive? There is always a "proper tool for the job". I will dive BM, SM, or No-mount depending on the cave.

Jerry

You hit the nail on the head. Become proficient in using all the tools, then choose the right one for the job. I enjoy how streamlined BM is, but I like the access that SM gives me. I don't enjoy diving closed circuit as much as open circuit, but I like the range and duration it gives me. They are all just techniques to get you where you want to go. The 'where' is more important than the 'how'.

Andy

EGIB

04-10-2008, 12:25 AM

I switched to a sidemount configuration when I had 25 dives after full cave and did not dive backmount again until today (two months and over 50 dives later). I decided to try it because I am hoping to take a scooter class soon and may be tagging along in another class where I think the instructor would prefer I was in backmount. So today was practice. I was scared...but the dive actually went great!

I feel more streamlined for scootering when I am in backmount and it is much easier to clip/unclip stages. I did sort of forget that I couldn't fit through certain areas quite the same way (for example, coming out Devil's Eye was more interesting than it has been in a while) but overall I enjoyed the dive and might be diving backmount more often. I also like just donning the tanks, walking into the water, and being pretty much ready to go...rather than hauling the tanks down to the water one by one and then having my backmount buddies tapping their feet as I slowly put on my sidemount tanks.

I think from now on I'll just decide which set-up to use based on the dive plan.

04-10-2008, 02:17 AM

Slüdge

04-10-2008, 11:07 AM

I also like just donning the tanks, walking into the water, and being pretty much ready to go...You hit the nail on the head! Of course, everybody knows I'm just a lazy bucket o' scum...

EGIB

04-10-2008, 11:13 AM

I've never scootered in backmount, so I have nothing to compare to, but what is it about sidemount that makes you less streamlined?

Also, why do you feel it's easier to clip/unclip stages in backmount? I don't see much of a difference if you're carrying the stage bottles the same way.

I am using 95s for my sidemount tanks and they are so fat that my arms just sit funny with them when I'm using the scooter. Problem might be solved by moving the tanks down a D-ring or using different tanks, but the way I have them set up right now it is a little uncomfortable, and creates some drag too.

Also, I do not clip my stages to my waist D ring, I use the buttplate so they tuck away nicely, but again my arm needs to be at a weird angle to get the back clip and it's just a bit of a pain. Again, these are general issues I have with sidemounting, things that will get fixed over time... I was just amazed at how much fun I had in backmount!

chimie007

04-10-2008, 11:31 AM

Also, I do not clip my stages to my waist D ring, I use the buttplate so they tuck away nicely, but again my arm needs to be at a weird angle to get the back clip and it's just a bit of a pain.

Same on that. I have SM and scootered with two stages. One on each side on top of the 104s I SM. As Elisha said it's a bit tricky at first to clip on the butt plate but after a bit of practice it's not harder than backmount. I have found it to much more streamlined to have the stages on top of my SM tanks. I have sometimes clipped an empty stage under the SM tank but it's not as good. This probably has a lot to do on where the SM tanks are positioned. Also I find reaching the butt plate easier than my left D-ring.

IMHO A big advantage of SM is that it is more streamlined (I disagree with Andy on that one). My moving speed was up and my SAC was already lower after my second SM dive vs BM.