lost line drill with dpv

[wingman]

Just read Larry Green's excellent article on "Reviewing the Lost Line Skill" in the most recent NACD journal that i got in the mail today. He mentions at the outset that "there is some evidence in recent tragedies that loss of the line was a contributing factor." I think that those tragedies also may have involved dpvs and his article does not explicitly mention handling the situation with a dpv. How does being connected to a dpv change the dynamics of the line finding process if at all? While i have not had an instructor discuss this with me I would probably screw down the trigger, go to zero pitch and then clip the scooter to my left chest d ring, deploy the safety reel/spool and tie in, then search being sure to keep the line on my right side opposite the scooter. I have also considered unhooking the scooter and tying it to the safety line to make it easier to search. Once the line was found, reel tied in and arrow set, you could go back for the scooter (or not depending on circumstances). Any thoughts on this protocol??Bill

[Genesis]

Seems to me that lots depends on the situation - and situational awareness of where you are.

Getting tangled in the search line is obviously very bad, and a scooter is a big object with lots of mass.

Lots also would depend, I'd think, on whether you need the scooter to get out or not from where you are. If not, then using it as an "anchor" for the search line would seem to be a viable option. If so, then you have to think that one though (getting lost AGAIN retrieving it would be really un-good) I've considered using a backup light as a search line anchor in the past, if the bottom is conducive to that (the assumption being if I'm lost off the line I probably have a zero vis situation on my hands to begin with)

One of the challenges I've had thrown at me during drills is a tunnel with no good tie-offs immediately available - that kinda drove home the idea of using a backup light as a "stake" (turn it on first, of course.)

This is an interesting topic that I've not seen discussed on the boards before...... curious what other's thought processes look like.

[Howie]

I don't have any DPV exp. to add, but I have had a thought about a tieoff point.

What would you think of using a fin wedged in the bottom or wall?

It may sound crazy, but I found that I can swim pretty easily with one fin and I think I would rather be short one fin trying to find the line and a possibly exit then to need that backup light at the worst possible time.

Just something I've thought about and curious about others opinions.

[DeWayne]

Why not just carry a small drop weight?

[Howie]

I like the drop weight idea best of all. If you have one available.

I know the fin idea sounds crazy, but I really hate the idea of leaving behind a backup light. Just in case for some stupid reason you couldn't get back to it and needed it. If you have a DPV, and you can really swim fine with one fin.
I have seen alot of referances to using a backup light and evry time I have read that I think about needing that light. Howie

[wingman]

I like the drop weight idea best of all. If you have one available.

I know the fin idea sounds crazy, but I really hate the idea of leaving behind a backup light. Just in case for some stupid reason you couldn't get back to it and needed it. If you have a DPV, and you can really swim fine with one fin.
I have seen alot of referances to using a backup light and evry time I have read that I think about needing that light. Howie

You should read Larry Green's article...he states "Some may have been taught that in a smooth passageway you could use a backup light stuck in the mud. While that may help establish a base it is not a good idea to voluntarily give up a piece of perfectly working emergency gear that you may need later."

also i was not suggesting earlier to tie into the scooter but rather ditch the scooter by clipping it to the tied in safety reel/spool line. Unless the scooter was solidly established it would tend to be pulled in the direction of your travel so that you might not have a firmly established "home base." Bill

[Genesis]

Well, if you've got a drop weight, that works pretty well.

However, in a smooth passage you're going to have to use something. A backup light that is turned on and secured to the end of your search spool is unlikely to end up "missing" in any event. This assumes you check BOTH (so you know that the other one is working) and that your primary is still ok - if it was your "last", it'd be a tougher decision.

I don't know if I like the idea of a fin...... it makes a surprising difference in the ability to make progress and retain control.

[DeWayne]

The fin idea sounds as iffy as the tieing off to the scooter idea. If the scooter is properly weighted then it would make a very poor choice as a tie off point. I was taught to use one of my back up lights, always carry at least 2 and make sure that they both work prior to entering the water. I soon started thinking about what to do in passage where it would be difficult, if not impossible, to stick a back up light in the mud securely. Seeing as I had a variety of soft weights from pre-backplate days, I simply popped a grommet through one and voila, had my drop wieght that could be stashed in a pocket or clipped off somewhere. Easy enough to adjust the wieght so as not to be carrying more weight than needed. Been using this ever since with no problems. Former instructor even copied it into his kit.

[Anonymous]

Have any of you guys actually taken a cave training course, or are you just "using the force"? You guys crack me up.

[wingman]

Have any of you guys actually taken a cave training course, or are you just "using the force"? You guys crack me up.

Not quite sure what you find so humorous...enlighten me with your wisdom ob1.

[Rich]

Any thoughts on this protocol??Bill

Hey Bill!
I'd just clip my scooter off on the butt d ring (as if I was swimming out a dead scooter..eg cradling it between my legs) and do a standard line search. The scooter shouldn't really make much difference...especially when you have a Silent :D Hope this helps bud!
Safe diving,
Rich

[cavdiver2]

I think the right thing to do is stop drop the scooter and use it as a tie off point to start your lost line search. This way your not making things worse trying to find a starting point. Don't forget you can always go back for the scooter but not your life. This may have been said but this is my 2 cents worth.

Michael McDonald

[swimndive]

There are several ways one can "loose the line" while scootering, and the procedures for each will vary. A lost line due to impaired perception or visibility would require a different procedure from a broken line or perhaps one that became wrapped then broken and finally lost. The most important thing to remember is to not make the situation any worse. One can then observe orient decide and then act in a proper fashion to return to the first frame of the scene of the accident. You know the one where everything was fine, right before the one where someone yelled oh sh..! That distance should never be more than a few seconds. Seems obvious, but apparently, it is not. Every one please have a safe and Happy New Year.