Which Organization?

[Line Squirrel]

I was limited to 10 poll questions, probably a good thing. Way too many different combinations but let's roll with it.

This one is a multiple choice of course.

[amphipod06]

Not to invite flaming here, but what exactly are we interested in determining?

Dive safe,

Celia

[Line Squirrel]

Just curious.

[amphipod06]

Oh shucks, and there I was thinking there was some scientific thinking behind all this...

Dive safe,

Celia

[Bill Rotella]

Oh shucks, and there I was thinking there was some scientific thinking behind all this...

Dive safe,

Celia

There is.........................we are cave divers and we will rule the world! lol, I could not resist.

[Line Squirrel]

Interesting.

Take away the votes for those joining both organizations. Where people have made a choice to join one over the other, the CDS out numbers the NACD over 2 to 1 [currently 21 to 10] and because you need to join the NSS as well, it has the more expensive membership dues.

I wonder how much having to be a NSS/CDS member to dive Cow, Cathedral & School Sink has to do with this? Probably everything I would think.

NACD needs to buy a cave [entrance]?

No flame wars...just an observation. I'm one the "both organizations - lifer" so I support both equally.

[Cindy]

What it means to me is that the NACD and the NSS-CDS need to merge. I'm pretty tired of paying dues to two organizations. It would make for a better lobby. The money could be shared to protect caves, train divers and keep the sport in the good graces of the public. The split was purely political when it happened. Two very small groups that couldn't get along. I think that cave diving has grown up to the point cave divers can work together. It could happen if we members pulled it together. Cindy Butler

[amphipod06]

There is.........................we are cave divers and we will rule the world! lol, I could not resist.

What no bwahahahhahahahaha laugh to go with it?
Dove yesterday at Ginnie, seems the world and their little brother was there...:-)

Yes, the poll is interesting, I think you should have added the reason for joining either instead of speculating (not vey scientific...).

I joined NSS-CDS because it was non-profit and I like the magazine... :-)

Dive safe,

Celia

[Line Squirrel]

What no bwahahahhahahahaha laugh to go with it?
Dove yesterday at Ginnie, seems the world and their little brother was there...:-)

Yes, the poll is interesting, I think you should have added the reason for joining either instead of speculating (not vey scientific...).

I joined NSS-CDS because it was non-profit and I like the magazine... :-)

Dive safe,

Celia

The software only allows for 10 questions. I maybe should have not bothered asking about the length of membership.

Hindsight being 20/20 I would have asked different questions...such as you mentioned!

[Rich]

Interesting.

Take away the votes for those joining both organizations. Where people have made a choice to join one over the other, the CDS out numbers the NACD over 2 to 1 [currently 21 to 10] and because you need to join the NSS as well, it has the more expensive membership dues.

I wonder how much having to be a NSS/CDS member to dive Cow, Cathedral & School Sink has to do with this? Probably everything I would think.

NACD needs to buy a cave [entrance]?

No flame wars...just an observation. I'm one the "both organizations - lifer" so I support both equally.

Another observation I'll throw out there is that from meeting people around the cave country area and having been to both the yearly seminars for about 5 years, I'd be willing to bet that the "average age" of a CDS member is a lot higher than an NACD member, it just seems to me like the younger crowd is very hip with the NACD.

As always these are just my thoughts, I support both agencies and encourage my students to do the same..... :)

Safe diving,

Rich

[Arnold Mesiser]

I think it would be interesting to find out how many members are also NSS members and perhaps dry cavers as well as cave divers.

[Line Squirrel]

I think it would be interesting to find out how many members are also NSS members and perhaps dry cavers as well as cave divers.


Well, I think I can answer your first question. You have to be a NSS member to be a CDS member...I believe.

[amphipod06]

Well, I think I can answer your first question. You have to be a NSS member to be a CDS member...I believe.

Yes, you have to. But not all CDS members are also dry cavers (I know they have a term they prefer but I can't remember it now...). You can opt to have the CDS magazine and not the NSS mag for a significantly lower fee as well, saves a bit of $$

As far as younger vs older, I have never been to either organization's seminars but it'd be interesting to find out the average age as well (there are some outlyers that should be considered separately because they'll just skew the whole thing, not mentioning names here... :-) )

Dive safe,

Celia

PS Mike, I think maybe this should run again with different discriminators, it would be very interesting (no mad scientist laugh yet...)

[Rich]

One of the things that I really liked is that the highest number in the poll was those who were a member of both organizations...... :)

Safe diving,

Rich

[Line Squirrel]

PS Mike, I think maybe this should run again with different discriminators, it would be very interesting (no mad scientist laugh yet...)

Come up with a list of questions [10 max] and we can put together another poll, or you could. I believe everybody has the ability to make polls.

A suggestion though. You indicated you would like to know the reason a choice was made one over the other or why they chose both...that may have to be an essay question and post the answer. I don't know how you would cover all the variables. You're going to eat up four questions with "which one or both or none".

[amphipod06]

I think you could just leave the reason as an option for those participating to post, rather than make it a specific set of answers.

Age group is interesting as Rich mentioned, it may be related to commitment or social opportunity. Geez, this reminds me of social science and statistics..... yikes!!

Subcultures (cave divers) are very interesting in their customs and mores, oh dear, and I was not intending to get involved here, better quit now.

Dive safe,

Celia

[Arnold Mesiser]

Well, I think I can answer your first question. You have to be a NSS member to be a CDS member...I believe.

Indeed that is true I could have worded it better.Essentially I am curious how many are dry cavers and cave divers/sump divers.Celia made some good points too about various sub memberships.

[aainslie]

How come you left out GUE? I'm offended.

[tomhauburn]

I think you would find if you put GUE on it you might also need to add a joint one to the list of GUE and CDS. I am not sure if there is any also in NACD but I would not be surprised.
Tom

[cavediver256]

How come you left out GUE? I'm offended.

You offended??? Come on Andrew....say it ain't so !!!:yawinkle:

[MORGAN]

You offended??? Come on Andrew....say it ain't so !!!:yawinkle:

Offensensitivity is a terrible thing....



Mike

[AMW]

NO CDG, but I can live with it :roll:

Andrew

[Tegg]

I think that it's sad to see that the highest number is those that are a member of NO CAVE ORGANIZATION.

Not being a member of at least one organization means that there is no care to protect and/or preserve the very things we love to dive and explore.

[Rich]

I think that it's sad to see that the highest number is those that are a member of NO CAVE ORGANIZATION.

Not being a member of at least one organization means that there is no care to protect and/or preserve the very things we love to dive and explore.

Actually Joe, we have 226 divers that belong to either the CDS and/or the NACD, compared to 134 who don't belong to any, so all is not lost..... :)

Safe diving,

Rich

[skip]

I think that it's sad to see that the highest number is those that are a member of NO CAVE ORGANIZATION.

Not being a member of at least one organization means that there is no care to protect and/or preserve the very things we love to dive and explore.

not true. being a member or not of two specific organizations does not mean one does not belong to other equally concerned organizations. and belonging to no organization of any kind does not indicate a lack of caring anyway; you can't measure caring as the number of organizations of which one is a member any more than you can take the measure of a cave diver as the number of cave dives done.

-skip

[Squirrel Girl]

I wonder how much having to be a NSS/CDS member to dive Cow, Cathedral & School Sink has to do with this? Probably everything I would think.
I picked the NSS/CDS because I had already been an NSS member for 19 years when I got Full Cave. I didn't see any need for an extra NACD membership. CDS was enough for me. I figure I'm not typical.


But not all CDS members are also dry cavers (I know they have a term they prefer but I can't remember it now...).
It's called "caver." We only apply "dry" when there's the possibility of confusing with cave divers.


Essentially I am curious how many are dry cavers and cave divers/sump divers.
I was curious about that at convention. I tried counting. I think I came up with something like 13 at convention, and a few more not there. I didn't count people like Dave Bunnell who took up cave diving, then dropped it when he got married and his wife didn't want him to keep cave diving. Undoubtedly there were others I didn't think of (and I don't know all of them). I only counted folks from the US. Probably all UK cave divers are also dry cavers.

[rblackburn]

I was curious about that at convention. I tried counting. I think I came up with something like 13 at convention, and a few more not there. I didn't count people like Dave Bunnell who took up cave diving, then dropped it when he got married and his wife didn't want him to keep cave diving. Undoubtedly there were others I didn't think of (and I don't know all of them). I only counted folks from the US. Probably all UK cave divers are also dry cavers.

I started caving in 1972, joined the NSS in 1982 & started cave diving in 2002 -- Looks like I like years that end with a 2 ;) So I guess I am in that category.

Richard Blackburn
NSS 22940 RLF

[FW]

I was curious about that at convention. I tried counting. I think I came up with something like 13 at convention, and a few more not there. I didn't count people like Dave Bunnell who took up cave diving, then dropped it when he got married and his wife didn't want him to keep cave diving. Undoubtedly there were others I didn't think of (and I don't know all of them). I only counted folks from the US. Probably all UK cave divers are also dry cavers.
I have almost 20 on the sumpdiving rescue calldown list. That doesn't include the less active sumpdivers, and those I don't know.

[sskasser]

I started out cave diving, did a dry (NOT a dry spot in it, really!) cave just to get to the sump, and became hooked on the dry stuff too. Bass-ackwards, I know, but I got there eventually and now I love all three.

:diver

[newman_diver]

I did my Full Cave through IANTD in Mexico. Up until reading this post, I was not fully aware of what the organizations were all about. Sounds like I should do some research.

[Webmaster]

Sump --- We went caving and a dive broke out.


Marbry

[guru caver]

Maybe the poll should be which agency does the most instead of this political, popularity contest. (Just another opinion)
Anyway, I like the NACD. They are throwing an awesome Halloween party at Ginnie Springs this year! :yawinkle: