Barry Miller - formerly of Halcyon - arrested

[MikeH]

:orccensored

Apparently, Barry Miller(formerly of Halcyon, recently started Salvodiving.com), was arrested today on charges of "theft" from Halcyon.

Anybody have any specifics on what's going on?

Mike

Edit: The original post I made had much, much more content than this. Most of it fact, some opinion. Some of it may be construed, by some people, as negative toward specific people. I held back because I knew if I posted what I really feel I would likely be banned. I have taken the full blown, no holds barred discussion to another venue.

[imported_admin]

MikeH's thread was edited (:smt024) to remove any 'opinions' of a cave diver and/or a cave diving organization. The facts concerning this topic are not opinions, so therefore, do not break our Rule #6. :blackbar

If you reply, and many of us certainly want to know more about this, please state facts, not your opinion, good or bad, of the cave diver or the cave diving organization.

[mfascuba]

All politics aside, I hope they settle this "peacefully". I've seen his web site, and he's got some nice stuff, seems well made, etc. I'm not too current on the Halcyon product line, but there seem to be enough differences that neither could scream patent infringement.

(But I'm not a patent lawyer, I just saw one on TV.)

Competition is good! It keeps prices at a fair level, and ensures that technology doesn't stagnate.

Mark

[Genesis]

Patent infringement is a civil matter (e.g. you get sued)

This is apparently a CRIMINAL matter (he's in jail right now)

I will not post an opinion on anyone in this scenario, both because I don't know who did (or didn't do) what, etc - besides the issue of the forum rules.

However, which ever side is wrong on this deal, they've got brass nuts. I think that can be safely said without violating any of the forum commandments.....

You'd have to in order to steal components from a former employer, set up shop OPENLY (Barry was not exactly hiding that he was selling dive lights and such!) and sell that product to the public.

You'd also have to have brass nuts to falsely accuse someone of stealing to the gendarme, and falsify enough evidence to get them to issue a felony arrest warrant.

Which ever way the truth may lie (and this is one of those "binary" deals - I don't see any middle ground or shade of gray on this one) it will have serious repercussions. If Salvodiving did indeed sell stolen property either in whole or part, then customers may have their stuff seized (you can't sell what you don't own!) and as such those people could be out BOTH the money and the gear. If, on the other hand, the complaint is false, then a manufacturer is in major hot water and the person falsely accused will have a field day with this. Since its probably a fair assumption that some part of the transactions cross a state line (e.g. if any gear was sold outside Florida) jurisdiction could easily get moved into Federal Court, which is exactly where you don't want it if you've conspired to throw someone into jail on false pretenses.

I've got a thread up on www.scubaforum.org in the "Politics" folder on this; we don't have a "Rule 6" problem there - but I certainly do respect it here. It would appear that even if hard facts were to be developed in this case that they could not be reported here without potentially violating the rules.

Let's hope that which ever the truth turns out to be, that it is identified in reasonably short order and appropriate actions are taken.

This sort of thing sitting out there "in limbo" helps nobody. I was shopping for a new light for myself for Xmas....

I will post on my forum any facts I am able to develop, and if I can do it without violating the forum rules, I'll put them up here too.

[Dwain]

After doing some research on the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office @ www.uspto.gov I found out that how expensive it is to have a patent.


A patent for an invention is a grant of property rights by the U.S. Government through the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office. The patent grant excludes others from making, using, or selling the invention in the United States. A utility or plant patent in force on June 8, 1995, is subject to either the 17 year term from grant or the 20 year term from earliest effective U.S. filing date, whichever is longer. A design patent term is 14 years from patent grant. The right conferred by the patent grant extends throughout the United States. The terms "Patent Pending" and "Patent Applied For" are used to inform the public that an application for a patent has been filed. Patent protection does not start until the actual grant of a patent. Marking of an article as patented, when it is not, is illegal and subject to penalty.

A patent for an invention is the grant of a property right to the inventor, issued by the United States Patent and Trademark Office. Generally, the term of a new patent is 20 years from the date on which the application for the patent was filed in the United States or, in special cases, from the date an earlier related application was filed, subject to the payment of maintenance fees. U.S. patent grants are effective only within the United States, U.S. territories, and U.S. possessions. Under certain circumstances, patent term extensions or adjustments may be available.

The right conferred by the patent grant is, in the language of the statute and of the grant itself, “the right to exclude others from making, using, offering for sale, or selling” the invention in the United States or “importing” the invention into the United States. What is granted is not the right to make, use, offer for sale, sell or import, but the right to exclude others from making, using, offering for sale, selling or importing the invention. Once a patent is issued, the patentee must enforce the patent without aid of the USPTO.


If you were to be assessed all fees meaning late fees, domestic fees and international fees one could expect up to over $71,000 for a single patent. That does not mean that all patents cost this much.
http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/ac/qs/ope/fee2004nov22.htm

I’m currently researching patent laws for my Microeconomics class so this topic gives a bit more of a focus about patent infringement and associated information.

[Herbie]

1376 views so far, thats the most hit post to date. I wonder why when it comes to the ugly things in life , people love to see, hear or read about them. :? Heres a guy whos locked up , a company that feels they got screwed and its the most popular post on a site that the main topic of discussion sould be cave diving. WTF it just proves humans at the core are dirty rotten scoundrels who relish when others of their kind suffer. I for one am from the Betelgeuse solar system and am here to research y'all. :twisted:

[DeWayne]

1376 views so far, thats the most hit post to date. I wonder why when it comes to the ugly things in life , people love to see, hear or read about them. :? Heres a guy whos locked up , a company that feels they got screwed and its the most popular post on a site that the main topic of discussion sould be cave diving. WTF it just proves humans at the core are dirty rotten scoundrels who relish when others of their kind suffer. I for one am from the Betelgeuse solar system and am here to research y'all. :twisted:

Use your transdimensional powers of telepathic sight to research this (gesture) :twisted: LOL For what it's worth, Barry is one of the pioneers in cave diving equipment development and the other party is a much over rated entity connected to cave diving so of course it has everyone rubbernecking to see what's going down. Would you rather we start talking about what a demented pain you are 8)

[Herbie]

its a very hot issue and Barrys probally getting screwed or maybe Halcyon is. I too am guilty of being interested about the situation, of course , I am human also. Hey by the way did you standby your claim that I am a" demented pain", if so join the club just ask my wife and kids how much so. Take care. :-D

[wingman]

If not much research is required and all you want is a domestic patent it is usually about $15k, that's what my university patent attorney tells me. Bill

[DeWayne]

its a very hot issue and Barrys probally getting screwed or maybe Halcyon is. I too am guilty of being interested about the situation, of course , I am human also. Hey by the way did you standby your claim that I am a" demented pain", if so join the club just ask my wife and kids how much so. Take care. :-D

Yer as demented as they come bro 8)

[imported_admin]

Posted: 27 Nov 2004 11:49 pm MikeH
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Herbie wrote:
1376 views so far, thats the most hit post to date.


If it was at 1376 when you posted this...about 5 hours ago...it's now at 1785....so it's averaging more than a hit a minute. Glad to see the word is getting out. :blackbar

Mike

[imported_admin]

Posted: 28 Nov 2004 11:10 am michael-fisch
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Barry is no longer listed as being incarcerated, and has posted 2 replys to other questions on the http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hiddivelights group.

Scott Landon has posted some interesting suppositions/statements on the following group location: http://www.scubaforum.org/cgi-scuba/akcs-www?post=251

I don't know what to believe, :blackbar

Michael

[Genesis]

There is a reply up on my board at http://www.scubaforum.org/cgi-scuba/akcs-www?post=251 that appears to have been posted by Barry.

Just thought folks should know since I don't know if he's watching this board or not.

[wingman]

After doing some research on the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office @ www.uspto.gov I found out that how expensive it is to have a patent.

I’m currently researching patent laws for my Microeconomics class so this topic gives a bit more of a focus about patent infringement and associated information.

Dwain, fyi have you seen the national acadamies work on "A patent System for the 21st Century" see www.nap.edu. Bill

[Dwain]

After doing some research on the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office @ www.uspto.gov I found out that how expensive it is to have a patent.

I’m currently researching patent laws for my Microeconomics class so this topic gives a bit more of a focus about patent infringement and associated information.

Dwain, fyi have you seen the national acadamies work on "A patent System for the 21st Century" see www.nap.edu. Bill

Thanks Bill, I'll add it to my research links