BC questions...

[Mighty Mighty Recon]

OK ive been diving with regular BC's for a while now... i have my Sherwood Avid 05 and my Black Diamond. I want a BC that can handle double 120's (i know i know...) with atleast 4 d-rings (2 on each shoulder area). I want to get more into real cave diving (all ive really done is cavern diving to be honest... but i have done a few limited cave penetrations before).

Who makes the good ones? Any particular models that are better for tech diving with alot of gear and stuff? Links anyone? Thanks...

[loquat149]

OK ive been diving with regular BC's for a while now... i have my Sherwood Avid 05 and my Black Diamond. I want a BC that can handle double 120's (i know i know...) with atleast 4 d-rings (2 on each shoulder area). I want to get more into real cave diving (all ive really done is cavern diving to be honest... but i have done a few limited cave penetrations before).

Who makes the good ones? Any particular models that are better for tech diving with alot of gear and stuff? Links anyone? Thanks...

Here are some links to good equipment, I think Diverite's transpac comes with 4 d-rings; although I think that's probably one of the last things you should consider.

http://www.oxycheq.com
http://www.salvodiving.com/
http://www.omsdive.com
http://www.diverite.com
http://www.deepseasupply.com/
http://www.halcyon.net

Dave

[loquat149]

Oh, I forgot you'll probably need one of these too:

www.nsscds.com
www.safecavediving.com
www.iantd.com
www.gue.com

Dave

[Mighty Mighty Recon]

Thanks for all the links and info! Yeah i still need to get certified for cave penetration... allthough i do admit i have done a few caves before with some of my military buddies and our dragers lol. They didnt go past 100 ft penetration or below 33ft depth so it was pretty safe stuff for my level of training and our gear set up. :-D

Once again... thanks.

[Mart]

They didnt go past 100 ft penetration or below 33ft depth so it was pretty safe stuff for my level of training and our gear set up. :-D


Think again...

[BradfordNC]

... allthough i do admit i have done a few caves before with some of my military buddies and our dragers lol. They didnt go past 100 ft penetration or below 33ft depth so it was pretty safe stuff for my level of training and our gear set up.

if your not trained for the overhead, then it wasn't safe.

[Mighty Mighty Recon]

Im deffinitly trained for penetration diving i just dont have a civilian cave diving cert.

[DeepSea]

Im deffinitly trained for penetration diving i just dont have a civilian cave diving cert.

Well there is no military certification for "penetration diving". What is that anyway?

US Navy Diver - 8 Years
SCUBA - 5345
2nd Class - 5343

I did SCUBA with a bunch of guys from 3rd RECON out of Okinawa. Not many passed though.

[Mighty Mighty Recon]

Im deffinitly trained for penetration diving i just dont have a civilian cave diving cert.

Well there is no military certification for "penetration diving". What is that anyway?

US Navy Diver - 8 Years
SCUBA - 5345
2nd Class - 5343

I did SCUBA with a bunch of guys from 3rd RECON out of Okinawa. Not many passed though.

Penetration diving... whenever you penetrate something... lets say some sewers or something similar that is completely overhead with a limited exit point/'s without a direct ascent to breathable air.

The USMC Combat Divers Course (MCD) has recently (within the last 3 years) added a penetration phase onto the advanced course used by force reconassaince marines who are stationed with NSW or a SOCOM/JSOC task force.

You can go here http://www.supsalv.org/specwar/ and log in (password is your social security number) if you are still active duty... if you have clearence to view the course info then it will let you in to see the advanced special operations dive course. :-D

[DeepSea]

Good luck in the caves...especially if you think military diving has anything at all to do with cave diving.

I am no longer active. I did 8 and the Navy and I parted ways. But I still have a few friends that work up at NEDU.

I was looking at the syllabus for your course...It is impressive. It is good that the Marines are being trained in their own type program. When triained with/as Navy divers they didn't fair well as it wasn't applicable to their mission requirements -- IMO ( a guy in a hat with a wrench does not equal a guy with a weapon). I learned very early after I left the Navy that military diving is not applicable to civilian diving. It was haphazrd of me to assume otherwise. Again, good luck in the caves.

Regardless of diving, I appreciate your service to our great Country.

[Mighty Mighty Recon]

Ive only done 3 caves and they were very limited penetrations. There arnt exactly alot of caves here in Southern California waters :( ... but there are quite a few caverns (you can surface inside these and have access to breathable air).

There is a cave with water in it (classified as a cavern because its not fully submerged) at the USN/USMC SERE school at NSWC Warner Springs in San Diego County. Ive done that one and it was pretty cool... although very small and nothing much to see besides all the frogs and stuff that live in it. We did some sewer penetration at Coronado and also at Red Beach on Camp Pendleton (the old Area 21 sewers they took out a few years back).

I wont be doing serious cave penetration untill i am certified to do so. :-D

PADI OW - 1992
PADI AOW - 1992
PADI Specialties - To many to list - 1992/1994
PADI Drysuit Diver - 1996
PADI Rescue Diver - 1996
PADI Enriched Air Diver - 1997
PADI Master Scuba Diver - 1999

USMC Combat Diver - Class 02 -1997
USMC Advanced Combat Diver - Class 01 - 2003

Pendleton? I thought the Marine base in southern California was called Camp Henderson.

:-D

[JE]

Ive only done 3 caves and they were very limited penetrations. There arnt exactly alot of caves here in Southern California waters :( ... but there are quite a few caverns (you can surface inside these and have access to breathable air).

I wont be doing serious cave penetration untill i am certified to do so. :-D

PADI OW - 1992
PADI AOW - 1992
PADI Specialties - To many to list - 1992/1994
PADI Drysuit Diver - 1996
PADI Rescue Diver - 1996
PADI Enriched Air Diver - 1997
PADI Master Scuba Diver - 1999

USMC Combat Diver - Class 02 -1997
USMC Advanced Combat Diver - Class 01 - 2003

***Dear Friend,
I for one appreciiate your enthusiam for the overhead environment, but please don't be ignorant of many heeded warnings: 'Be trained for the Cavern & Cave environments'-! http://www.safecavediving.com/training.htm

There were three Mil. 'Seals' who were advanced divers, but knew little of the cave environment, & were in relatively calm waters, but lost their lives in one of our more popular cavern sites, because they were not trained for cavern or cave diving. I personally pulled three open water divers out alive from one of our cave systems, & then only because I realized their predictiment. We had a very long talk after the rescue about the merits of being properly trained & equipped for cave diving. I am not a military diver, but I do have a lot of advanced training & experiences to fall back on. What I am saying is that I value my brother's & sister's lives, & don't want anyone to fall victim to the 'magic-of-discovery' with-in our wonderous caves without first being trained-! Please re-think your actions & take the cavern & cave classes first-!
http://www.safecavediving.com/safetybrochure/safetybrochure_Page_1.jpg

Most sincerely,

JE
NSS/CDS #18643

[hunter991]

If you are still looking for a backplate PM me and I will talk to you and answer questions for you. I am a Salvo dealer, as well as about anything else you could ever need and can give you a decent deal on one of their setups if you wish.

Emailing me may be best though. hunter99991@hotmail.com

Brent


OK ive been diving with regular BC's for a while now... i have my Sherwood Avid 05 and my Black Diamond. I want a BC that can handle double 120's (i know i know...) with atleast 4 d-rings (2 on each shoulder area). I want to get more into real cave diving (all ive really done is cavern diving to be honest... but i have done a few limited cave penetrations before).

Who makes the good ones? Any particular models that are better for tech diving with alot of gear and stuff? Links anyone? Thanks...

[Mighty Mighty Recon]

Pendleton? I thought the Marine base in southern California was called Camp Henderson.

:-D

I believe you are thinking of a famous WW2 site... where US Marines were vastly outnumbered and made there final stand at Henderson Airfield on Guadalcanal in the Solomon Island chain near Australia... slaughtering tens of thousands of japanese and taking total control of the island after 6 months of fighting.

Or you were making a Gomer Pyle joke. :-D

[Mighty Mighty Recon]

Ive only done 3 caves and they were very limited penetrations. There arnt exactly alot of caves here in Southern California waters :( ... but there are quite a few caverns (you can surface inside these and have access to breathable air).

I wont be doing serious cave penetration untill i am certified to do so. :-D

PADI OW - 1992
PADI AOW - 1992
PADI Specialties - To many to list - 1992/1994
PADI Drysuit Diver - 1996
PADI Rescue Diver - 1996
PADI Enriched Air Diver - 1997
PADI Master Scuba Diver - 1999

USMC Combat Diver - Class 02 -1997
USMC Advanced Combat Diver - Class 01 - 2003

***Dear Friend,
I for one appreciiate your enthusiam for the overhead environment, but please don't be ignorant of many heeded warnings: 'Be trained for the Cavern & Cave environments'-! http://www.safecavediving.com/training.htm

Most sincerely,

JE
NSS/CDS #18643

I should have stated it more clearly... but those three penetration dives i spoke about in previous posts were for my advanced cert in the military. If you for any reason... as a certified cave diver or instructor or diver of any kind... you beleive these to be unsafe then feel free to contact the Head of Marine Combat Diver training. If you know something they dont... im sure they would love to hear it as to not put there divers in any un-needed dangerous situations.

Commanding Officer
Attn: USMC Advanced Combatant Diver Course
Naval Diving and Salvage Training Center
350 South Crag Road
Panama City, Florida 32407-7016

Ive got 240 minutes (MOT-Single Depth) @ 25 fsw on my MK-25 Mod 2 (pure oxygen rebreather - Sofnolime 8-12 Mesh NI, D Grade)... so i think running out of oxygen isnt going to happen unless something goes wrong with the equipment (ive never had a malfunction). I know how to set follow lines and map my way. So getting lost isnt going to happen unless something major happens like losing my map slate or my line ripping... or both.

Its my fault that this is happening here, i said caves when i should have said caverns or other misc overhead enviornments. I have never been in a cave as you know/reffer to it (although parts of some caverns are cave-like).

Hugs, Kittens, and much respect;

Recon

Or you were making a Gomer Pyle joke. :-D

Bingo.

[BradfordNC]

The USMC Combat Divers Course (MCD) has recently (within the last 3 years) added a penetration phase onto the advanced course used by force reconassaince marines who are stationed with NSW or a SOCOM/JSOC task force.

You can go here http://www.supsalv.org/specwar/ and log in (password is your social security number) if you are still active duty... if you have clearence to view the course info then it will let you in to see the advanced special operations dive course. :-D


civilian website for "classified" info? that only needs a social security number to access?? and not on a secure network.

LMFAO give me a break dude

oh, and pretty funny as well trying to drop a hint at some kind of connection to SOCOM or JSOC.

as noted by an earlier reply, there is no military training that is equivalent to cave cert.

[Mighty Mighty Recon]

The USMC Combat Divers Course (MCD) has recently (within the last 3 years) added a penetration phase onto the advanced course used by force reconassaince marines who are stationed with NSW or a SOCOM/JSOC task force.

You can go here http://www.supsalv.org/specwar/ and log in (password is your social security number) if you are still active duty... if you have clearence to view the course info then it will let you in to see the advanced special operations dive course. :-D

civilian website for "classified" info? that only needs a social security number to access?? and not on a secure network.

LMFAO give me a break dude

oh, and pretty funny as well trying to drop a hint at some kind of connection to SOCOM or JSOC.

First and formost; no one is dropping hints on anything. I dont remember any one saying anything was "classified". And i guess you dont beleive there are marines under JSOC or SOCOM... never heard of MARSOC... Det 1... TF 121... TF 145... or any others? Dont have a clue what Force Reconassaince companies do or why they are constantly training with SEAL teams?

If you think "classified" information is limited to military personell you are 100% wrong. Some of the most secret of secrets in the US DoD are trusted with civilian contractors... (who do you think designs all the "top secret" military equipment?) i think some diving training is pretty low on the scale of OPSEC.

That website has a similar policy as Drager.com or Crane does with its information. If you want certain stuff... you need clearance. Drager.com requests either an MOL or an SOF .mil email confermation account for specific information and the downloading of specific documents and manuals. Why? Because they choose to.


as noted by an earlier reply, there is no military training that is equivalent to cave cert.

I never said there was. Go back and read my posts before replying based on the posts of others.

Now... maybe i can find a few willing souls on here to have a decent conversation with about BC's and similar equipment instead of having to argue with kids.

:D

[DeepSea]

Now... maybe i can find a few willing souls on here to have a decent conversation with about BC's and similar equipment instead of having to argue with kids.

:D

Everyone on here is willing to give great advice and discuss their experiences. However, most people start to get scared when they see someone chest-beating:


I want to get more into real cave diving (all ive really done is cavern diving to be honest... but i have done a few limited cave penetrations before).

Too many people have died that did just "limited penetrations". Several reading this thread have also recovered those bodies.

The best way to get information is to just be humble and ask your question without any "look how cool I am" stuff. You don't need to prove yourself here.

Also, it isn't very cool to ramble off acronyms to look cool. If you want to help educate state the acronym and the definition. I am sure you guys actually joke about how many acronyms there are in the military -- I used to. So just leave them there...

[Mighty Mighty Recon]

The best way to get information is to just be humble and ask your question without any "look how cool I am" stuff. You don't need to prove yourself here.

Thats exactly why i joined this forum... to ask questions to expand my knowledge on the subject. Unfortinatly... a few people have seen the need to disprove me of something i dont even know what that is. Im not so much trying to prove myself as i am trying to prove im not just another basic diver who wants to go to the center of the earth with a scuba tank.

:)

[JE]

"Thats exactly why i joined this forum... to ask questions to expand my knowledge on the subject".


PM sent-!

J.

[Mighty Mighty Recon]

"Thats exactly why i joined this forum... to ask questions to expand my knowledge on the subject".


PM sent-!

J.

Thanks for all the great info in the PM. :D

[BradfordNC]

i have no problem with the original intent of your question.

you asked for info, you got some replies.


its the chest-thumping you have been doing. "limited penetrations" have been many an open-water divers undoing.

the term "clearance" applies to an individuals level of acces to classified information, and is not used for anything else. that is per DOD regulations.

civilians have security clearances?? duh, no kidding.

and prolly know a bit more about MARSOC than you do.

how bout providing a commercial or DSN number to this USMC Advanced Combatant Diver Course.

if it is designed for SOCOM/JSOC missions, it might be a good idea if SOCOM units knew about it.

if you don't want to post it on here (don't know why not because it's not gonna be classified) then you can just PM it.

[Mighty Mighty Recon]

"limited penetrations" have been many an open-water divers undoing.

Good thing im not just another open water diver then. :D


the term "clearance" applies to an individuals level of acces to classified information, and is not used for anything else. that is per DOD regulations.

Clearance * clear·ance (klîrns) : Official certification of blamelessness, trustworthiness, or suitability.

Seeing as to its not a .Mil or .Gov website i dont think your DoD version is applicable.


and prolly know a bit more about MARSOC than you do.

hahaha... if you open the can of worms you have to eat it... just remember that.


how bout providing a commercial or DSN number to this USMC Advanced Combatant Diver Course.

436-7061/5838


if it is designed for SOCOM/JSOC missions, it might be a good idea if SOCOM units knew about it.

Do you need glass's? I said it was for MARINES stationed with certain TASK FORCES within SOCOM, JSOC or NSW. Specifically for Det 1 which is technically under 1st NSW. There has only been 3 class's thus far... 10 Marines and 2 Corpsmen in each of the first 2 class's and about 5 Marines in the 3rd class. Like i said before... its very limited.

Have a wonderful day... :roll:

[BradfordNC]

Do you need glass's? I said it was for MARINES stationed with certain TASK FORCES within SOCOM, JSOC or NSW. Specifically for Det 1 which is technically under 1st NSW. There has only been 3 class's thus far... 10 Marines and 2 Corpsmen in each of the first 2 class's and about 5 Marines in the 3rd class. Like i said before... its very limited.

ok, a class for units that aren't on the tier but wish they were. got it.

and as for the can of worms. you better make sure you know what your talking about, and who your talking to.

no, my screen name doesn't try to throw my 201 file out there, but i can assure you i have far more experiance in the matter than you.

Okay, okay, that's it. Everything that needs to be said has been said.

Someone should quote Rodney King here.