Genesis
03-24-2006, 09:57 AM
Since Jim's Topic is locked, here is my response.... Please lock this as well to prevent flamefests. Thank you.
Suwannee River Water Management District
Attn : Clay Coarsey
9225 County Road 49
Live Oak, FL 32060
By Fax (with mail copy) to 386-362-1056
Alachua County Department of Growth Management
By Fax to 352-338-3224
RE: Permit Application #ERP05-0518 – WalMart Development at Rte 441/I-75
Please Note: Amended from earlier transmission; please disregard earlier fax
Dear Sir or Madam:
I am writing today to express concern about the WalMart project which is being considered along US-441 in Alachua.
I wish to express several points here which you may have heard, and also to make you aware of the actions of certain individuals in opposition to this project.
As a Cave Diver, I am deeply concerned about the potential impact of this project on the karst and connecting systems. This includes not only the caves themselves, but also the wells which supply private homes with potable water – all of which would be negatively impacted by development which does not include reasonable mitigation against run-off and other pollution dangers.
However, what has happened in the last couple of months is nothing short of an outrage. A small group of people opposed to “All Things WalMart” have been trolling the Internet, drumming up “support” for attempts to kill this project. They have lied repeatedly about persons in opposition to their views, including calling me a “paid lobbyist” when I have called for reason instead of “jihad” against these development plans.
For the record, I am retired, not on anyone’s payroll in this matter, nor do I have a securities position in any concern which stands to profit in any way from this docket. My sole interest in the matter is that of a concerned Florida Citizen and Cave Diver.
These individuals have also attempted to foment form-letter campaigns which, left unanswered, will severely distort the record regarding public sentiment on this project. This organization attempt has been made over the Internet on various diving related forums including “The Deco Stop” and “Cave Diver’s Forum”.
A number of charges have been made over the last few months in this debate which are flatly false; among them that “dynamic compaction” will be used and may collapse the cave system; a technique which they allege will be engaged in by dropping “multi-ton pieces of concrete from helicopters”. When challenged to produce evidence of this claim these individuals were forced to admit that there was no evidence that this sort of technique was in fact planned – or had ever been used in Florida.
There have also been claims that allowing fuel sales on the property will inevitably lead to releases of gasoline into the groundwater - and thus fuel sales should be absolutely barred. This, as I’m certain you know, is simply not true. Modern fueling systems are designed with double-wall tanks and full-time electronic monitoring between the two tank walls. Intrusion into the center space is immediately indicated on an alarm panel, and disables the fuel pumps as well. There is simply no reason to believe that this sort of installation, properly conducted, results in any material risk of groundwater or soil contamination by petroleum products.
There have been complaints about the inclusion of a garden center at the proposed site, with claims that such will “inevitably” lead to groundwater contamination due to fertilizers and other common garden chemicals being stored and sold in the facility.
Finally, there have been claims that WalMart will be operating a “full service garage” on-site and that WalMart should be barred from having any sort of automotive facility in the development. To the best of my knowledge no WalMart in the United States has ever offered such services. Every WalMart I have ever visited has its garage services limited to tires, oil changes, batteries and similar items. In every case where I have patronized WalMart for such services I have found their facilities to be without spills or hazardous materials in evidence; indeed, their level of cleanliness almost always exceeds that encountered in “Mom and Pop” gasoline stations around the country. And – to the extent that there is an environmental problem, WalMart has the “deep pockets” to insure that any cleanup effort or judgment against them can be paid. Can that be said about a “Mom and Pop” gasoline retailer?
All of these complaints are simply an attempt to force WalMart not to build the store at all. Their “SuperCenter” concept integrally includes a garden center, home improvement/hardware, light automotive service (batteries, tires and oil changes) and gasoline sales. While their fuel sales are likely not terribly profitable on their own, the traffic it generates results in a significant sales increase in the store itself. It is the synergy of the SuperCenter concept – do all your household shopping in one place, from groceries to paint for your kid’s room to tires for your car and fertilizer for your lawn - that makes it work.
An earlier version of this discussion on Cave Diver’s Forum (http://cavediver.net) was lost to a crash occasioned by a hacker early in the year. But just last night, after posting the original copy of this letter to the forum in opposition to the “Kill the Project” sentiment being drummed up, that thread, along with the personal attacks it contained were edited, then erased entirely. A copy of the original solicitation for form letters to be sent was reposted this morning – minus the dissenting comment.
Fortunately, I have a saved copy in my computer’s “cache” a couple of hours before the removal took place. Unfortunately, it does not include Cynthia Butler’s posted letter to you, nor some of her more incendiary comments as she edited them out (clearly shown.) I am attaching a copy of that message thread as it existed before it was removed to this letter for your review; it clearly shows Mr. Jim Wyatt soliciting for the transmission of the aforementioned form letter, and incredibly, a denial (by Cynthia Butler) that this is taking place – even though the solicitation appears just a few pages above in the same thread of discussion!
Most disturbing in that thread, and unfortunately gone, was a letter to you which Cynthia Butler posted in which she asked for more time to conduct underwater surveys, effectively asking you to postpone action on this permit application. Assuming that letter was actually sent, you should have a copy of it in your files.
This letter was disturbing to me precisely because it stated that the system has been undiveable for the purpose of survey due to infiltration of groundwater and runoff from rains over the last couple of months, which has greatly reduced water quality and clarity.
Incredibly, this argument – that WalMart will cause runoff to enter the sink – is the foundation of the complaint leveled against this development permit! I was amazing to find in that letter an admission that the very problem she and others seek to prevent is already taking place, even without a WalMart store on the subject parcel or indeed any development having begun, and that this condition has damaged water quality in the subject cave for the last several months – all due to NATURAL processes.
Please do not misinterpret this letter as an unqualified show of support for WalMart and this project, for it is not.
Rather, it is intended to point out to your organization the sort of organized opposition and tactics that are being used in an attempt to sway public opinion and commentary through presentation of less-than-fully-honest discourse and debate. Those who study the Karst and caves on even a cursory basis due to our interest in diving them – such as myself - know that runoff and flow reversals are part of the natural processes that underground caves undergo, and that these same runoff impacts occur on surface rivers as well.
There are legitimate concerns about this development project, and I hope that your organization is paying close attention to them. Specifically, runoff retention and proper grading is, in my opinion, essential to insure that high-volume runoff from storms does not end up flowing across 441 and into the sink, or percolate from groundwater through solution tubes that come within 50-70 feet of the surface at a greatly accelerated rate from what would otherwise naturally occur. This sort of rapid infiltration of ground-water runoff would result in severe degradation of local groundwater quality. Such impact, however, can be avoided by proper retention pond design, along with due consideration to the grading and slope of the parking lot to be built on the property.
Those government organizations with oversight into this matter can, and should, insure that reasonable environmental mitigation is undertaken in connection with this project, both during construction and for the “finished product”, to avoid unreasonable hazards to the environment.
Nobody – myself included – wants to see our natural environment damaged or destroyed.
But balanced against these concerns must be the existing state of periodic water quality degradation due to entirely natural processes that have been present for millions of years. As responsible stewards of the environment we are charged with weighing in the balance not only our irreplaceable natural resources, but also economic development and benefit for the community.
WalMart’s store will bring employment and commerce to an area that desperately needs it. The sales tax impact of this development project and revenues funneled back into the community from property taxes on the subject land, sales tax revenue from sales, and the consumption of employees who live and work in Alachua County must also be a consideration.
As I’m certain you are aware, there are many groups out there who have as their sole mission in life the disruption of WalMart’s expansion plans. These individuals and organizations often have ties to organized labor, who universally revile WalMart due to its employees’ staunch refusal to unionize. There are also those who dislike WalMart’s pricing, which often results in less-efficient retailers having to cut prices to meet competitive pressure or depart the market.
While there are those who would argue that the loss of competitive diversity is always bad, is this true for the person on a fixed income, or the working poor, who have $30.00 or more a week taken off their grocery bill? For someone on a fixed income, that reduction in their spending on necessities may be the difference that allows them buy both food and much-needed medication, instead of having to choose between them.
As in all things in life, balance is essential. I have seen nothing in my personal investigation of this matter that leads me to believe that WalMart’s permit application should be denied. I have seen cause for concern, which is addressable by appropriate agency review and building standards to insure that groundwater runoff from the property is retained and properly handled so as to avoid “shock loading” the local aquifer, including the cave system and sink in the vicinity.
My conclusion is that with this appropriate level of review the permit sought by WalMart should be granted. As a Florida resident who visits the Alachua area a couple of times a year on average I will welcome the ability to shop at WalMart once the store is completed and open. I have studiously avoided purchasing food and other supplies in the area, bringing them with me from home, for camping and other related trips due to the much higher prices that local retailers currently charge. There simply is no reason to pay $5.00 for a 12 pack of Coke when I can buy the same thing for $3.38 at WalMart every day. The presence of this store will add, on average, $100.00 worth of local spending in your economy on these trips by myself and my family, instead of my bringing supplies with me from the Destin area – which I currently purchase at the local WalMart.
I’m sure that others will do likewise; in addition to the local economic impact you will also enjoy increased spending by tourists coming to your area by car, as well as those who are passing by on the highway who stop for supplies as they head north or southbound.
Please take a careful look at the mail you are, and will be, receiving over the next few days and weeks. It should be fairly easy to identify letters that are “form letter copies”, which are being solicited on the Internet to be sent through various diving-related Bulletin Boards. It would serve your organization well to account for such artificial indications of opposition, and deal with them appropriately.
Sincerely;
Karl Denninger
Enclosure
Suwannee River Water Management District
Attn : Clay Coarsey
9225 County Road 49
Live Oak, FL 32060
By Fax (with mail copy) to 386-362-1056
Alachua County Department of Growth Management
By Fax to 352-338-3224
RE: Permit Application #ERP05-0518 – WalMart Development at Rte 441/I-75
Please Note: Amended from earlier transmission; please disregard earlier fax
Dear Sir or Madam:
I am writing today to express concern about the WalMart project which is being considered along US-441 in Alachua.
I wish to express several points here which you may have heard, and also to make you aware of the actions of certain individuals in opposition to this project.
As a Cave Diver, I am deeply concerned about the potential impact of this project on the karst and connecting systems. This includes not only the caves themselves, but also the wells which supply private homes with potable water – all of which would be negatively impacted by development which does not include reasonable mitigation against run-off and other pollution dangers.
However, what has happened in the last couple of months is nothing short of an outrage. A small group of people opposed to “All Things WalMart” have been trolling the Internet, drumming up “support” for attempts to kill this project. They have lied repeatedly about persons in opposition to their views, including calling me a “paid lobbyist” when I have called for reason instead of “jihad” against these development plans.
For the record, I am retired, not on anyone’s payroll in this matter, nor do I have a securities position in any concern which stands to profit in any way from this docket. My sole interest in the matter is that of a concerned Florida Citizen and Cave Diver.
These individuals have also attempted to foment form-letter campaigns which, left unanswered, will severely distort the record regarding public sentiment on this project. This organization attempt has been made over the Internet on various diving related forums including “The Deco Stop” and “Cave Diver’s Forum”.
A number of charges have been made over the last few months in this debate which are flatly false; among them that “dynamic compaction” will be used and may collapse the cave system; a technique which they allege will be engaged in by dropping “multi-ton pieces of concrete from helicopters”. When challenged to produce evidence of this claim these individuals were forced to admit that there was no evidence that this sort of technique was in fact planned – or had ever been used in Florida.
There have also been claims that allowing fuel sales on the property will inevitably lead to releases of gasoline into the groundwater - and thus fuel sales should be absolutely barred. This, as I’m certain you know, is simply not true. Modern fueling systems are designed with double-wall tanks and full-time electronic monitoring between the two tank walls. Intrusion into the center space is immediately indicated on an alarm panel, and disables the fuel pumps as well. There is simply no reason to believe that this sort of installation, properly conducted, results in any material risk of groundwater or soil contamination by petroleum products.
There have been complaints about the inclusion of a garden center at the proposed site, with claims that such will “inevitably” lead to groundwater contamination due to fertilizers and other common garden chemicals being stored and sold in the facility.
Finally, there have been claims that WalMart will be operating a “full service garage” on-site and that WalMart should be barred from having any sort of automotive facility in the development. To the best of my knowledge no WalMart in the United States has ever offered such services. Every WalMart I have ever visited has its garage services limited to tires, oil changes, batteries and similar items. In every case where I have patronized WalMart for such services I have found their facilities to be without spills or hazardous materials in evidence; indeed, their level of cleanliness almost always exceeds that encountered in “Mom and Pop” gasoline stations around the country. And – to the extent that there is an environmental problem, WalMart has the “deep pockets” to insure that any cleanup effort or judgment against them can be paid. Can that be said about a “Mom and Pop” gasoline retailer?
All of these complaints are simply an attempt to force WalMart not to build the store at all. Their “SuperCenter” concept integrally includes a garden center, home improvement/hardware, light automotive service (batteries, tires and oil changes) and gasoline sales. While their fuel sales are likely not terribly profitable on their own, the traffic it generates results in a significant sales increase in the store itself. It is the synergy of the SuperCenter concept – do all your household shopping in one place, from groceries to paint for your kid’s room to tires for your car and fertilizer for your lawn - that makes it work.
An earlier version of this discussion on Cave Diver’s Forum (http://cavediver.net) was lost to a crash occasioned by a hacker early in the year. But just last night, after posting the original copy of this letter to the forum in opposition to the “Kill the Project” sentiment being drummed up, that thread, along with the personal attacks it contained were edited, then erased entirely. A copy of the original solicitation for form letters to be sent was reposted this morning – minus the dissenting comment.
Fortunately, I have a saved copy in my computer’s “cache” a couple of hours before the removal took place. Unfortunately, it does not include Cynthia Butler’s posted letter to you, nor some of her more incendiary comments as she edited them out (clearly shown.) I am attaching a copy of that message thread as it existed before it was removed to this letter for your review; it clearly shows Mr. Jim Wyatt soliciting for the transmission of the aforementioned form letter, and incredibly, a denial (by Cynthia Butler) that this is taking place – even though the solicitation appears just a few pages above in the same thread of discussion!
Most disturbing in that thread, and unfortunately gone, was a letter to you which Cynthia Butler posted in which she asked for more time to conduct underwater surveys, effectively asking you to postpone action on this permit application. Assuming that letter was actually sent, you should have a copy of it in your files.
This letter was disturbing to me precisely because it stated that the system has been undiveable for the purpose of survey due to infiltration of groundwater and runoff from rains over the last couple of months, which has greatly reduced water quality and clarity.
Incredibly, this argument – that WalMart will cause runoff to enter the sink – is the foundation of the complaint leveled against this development permit! I was amazing to find in that letter an admission that the very problem she and others seek to prevent is already taking place, even without a WalMart store on the subject parcel or indeed any development having begun, and that this condition has damaged water quality in the subject cave for the last several months – all due to NATURAL processes.
Please do not misinterpret this letter as an unqualified show of support for WalMart and this project, for it is not.
Rather, it is intended to point out to your organization the sort of organized opposition and tactics that are being used in an attempt to sway public opinion and commentary through presentation of less-than-fully-honest discourse and debate. Those who study the Karst and caves on even a cursory basis due to our interest in diving them – such as myself - know that runoff and flow reversals are part of the natural processes that underground caves undergo, and that these same runoff impacts occur on surface rivers as well.
There are legitimate concerns about this development project, and I hope that your organization is paying close attention to them. Specifically, runoff retention and proper grading is, in my opinion, essential to insure that high-volume runoff from storms does not end up flowing across 441 and into the sink, or percolate from groundwater through solution tubes that come within 50-70 feet of the surface at a greatly accelerated rate from what would otherwise naturally occur. This sort of rapid infiltration of ground-water runoff would result in severe degradation of local groundwater quality. Such impact, however, can be avoided by proper retention pond design, along with due consideration to the grading and slope of the parking lot to be built on the property.
Those government organizations with oversight into this matter can, and should, insure that reasonable environmental mitigation is undertaken in connection with this project, both during construction and for the “finished product”, to avoid unreasonable hazards to the environment.
Nobody – myself included – wants to see our natural environment damaged or destroyed.
But balanced against these concerns must be the existing state of periodic water quality degradation due to entirely natural processes that have been present for millions of years. As responsible stewards of the environment we are charged with weighing in the balance not only our irreplaceable natural resources, but also economic development and benefit for the community.
WalMart’s store will bring employment and commerce to an area that desperately needs it. The sales tax impact of this development project and revenues funneled back into the community from property taxes on the subject land, sales tax revenue from sales, and the consumption of employees who live and work in Alachua County must also be a consideration.
As I’m certain you are aware, there are many groups out there who have as their sole mission in life the disruption of WalMart’s expansion plans. These individuals and organizations often have ties to organized labor, who universally revile WalMart due to its employees’ staunch refusal to unionize. There are also those who dislike WalMart’s pricing, which often results in less-efficient retailers having to cut prices to meet competitive pressure or depart the market.
While there are those who would argue that the loss of competitive diversity is always bad, is this true for the person on a fixed income, or the working poor, who have $30.00 or more a week taken off their grocery bill? For someone on a fixed income, that reduction in their spending on necessities may be the difference that allows them buy both food and much-needed medication, instead of having to choose between them.
As in all things in life, balance is essential. I have seen nothing in my personal investigation of this matter that leads me to believe that WalMart’s permit application should be denied. I have seen cause for concern, which is addressable by appropriate agency review and building standards to insure that groundwater runoff from the property is retained and properly handled so as to avoid “shock loading” the local aquifer, including the cave system and sink in the vicinity.
My conclusion is that with this appropriate level of review the permit sought by WalMart should be granted. As a Florida resident who visits the Alachua area a couple of times a year on average I will welcome the ability to shop at WalMart once the store is completed and open. I have studiously avoided purchasing food and other supplies in the area, bringing them with me from home, for camping and other related trips due to the much higher prices that local retailers currently charge. There simply is no reason to pay $5.00 for a 12 pack of Coke when I can buy the same thing for $3.38 at WalMart every day. The presence of this store will add, on average, $100.00 worth of local spending in your economy on these trips by myself and my family, instead of my bringing supplies with me from the Destin area – which I currently purchase at the local WalMart.
I’m sure that others will do likewise; in addition to the local economic impact you will also enjoy increased spending by tourists coming to your area by car, as well as those who are passing by on the highway who stop for supplies as they head north or southbound.
Please take a careful look at the mail you are, and will be, receiving over the next few days and weeks. It should be fairly easy to identify letters that are “form letter copies”, which are being solicited on the Internet to be sent through various diving-related Bulletin Boards. It would serve your organization well to account for such artificial indications of opposition, and deal with them appropriately.
Sincerely;
Karl Denninger
Enclosure