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RD Milhollin
08-02-2005, 12:32 PM
Bill Mixon posted this report on the CaveTex list. Read all the way through
from the beginning.

On October 10, 2004, J. Cordingley observed in a cave in Yorkshire that the passage was blocked 1 meter beyond the end of previous survey by a large rectangular block that had dropped out of the ceiling. It was 1 meter wide and could be seen to be at least 4 meters long, and it would be necessary to get over it somehow.

On November 13, A. Hall attacked the block with a "lump hammer" (a sledge, presumably), and managed to squeeze in about 2 meters over the block. J. Cordingley then tried, but was unable to progress farther. He spent some time removing about a cubic meter of the block, using the hammer and a long chisel and exploiting natural fracture lines. All the loose pieces were rolled back to the sides of the approach passage, and Cordingley was then able to squeeze forward about another meter. Further work broke off two more large pieces, but time did not allow them to be moved.

On November 20, Cordingley went in to deal with the boulders loosened the previous weekend. The first one was 1.2 meters long and and 0.6 meters square and was far too big to manhandle out of the way. A bolt was placed in it, and it was winched a meter down the passage, where it broke in two. One part was disposed of, and another bolt was placed in the second part in preparation for the next trip.

On December 5, Cordingley returned and placed a bolt in the approach passage floor to winch the remaining boulder out of the way. Another large boulder was then separated from the great block in front by hitting several chisels in sequence along a crack. It was too big to shift, but a long session with chisels and lump hammer eventually got in into smaller pieces, all of which were then rolled back down the passage.

On December 6, Cordingley managed to get over the remains of the block to its far end, but the step down in the roof there prevented him from getting beyond that point, although a crawl could be seen continuing. He then attacked the remaining rock, and another large lump was broken off. Much hammering ensued, but it refused to fall in two, so a hole was drilled in it in preparation for winching.

Another assault on the boulder was made on January 14, 2005, but it still
refused to break, so a hole for it was dug in the floor and a bolt placed in
the hole previously drilled, and it was drug into the hole. The next
boulder, apparently the last, was observed to be a monster, at least a meter from front to back.

On February 2, Cordingley placed a bolt in the last boulder before digging a hole to receive it. It was delicately winched toward the hole, because it
had to land in just the right spot, there being very little room left. This
was successful, and he was able to proceed past the original blockage, only to find three meters later that an abrupt step back up in the ceiling was too sharp to negotiate in the tight passage.

On February 19, Cordingley attempted to chamfer off the edge of the step up with a lump hammer, and after about an hour a good bit of rock had been removed and the squeeze was passed to gain 2 meters of low bedding-plane crawl.

Well, OK, so just another difficult dig with little result. So what? What I
have concealed by artful editing is that all this took place 50 meters into
a water-filled cave and was done by cave divers. Hardcore.

(From reports in the Cave Diving Group [Great Britain] Newsletter, number 155, April 2005.)

Arnold Mesiser
08-02-2005, 02:37 PM
What are they using to drill the shots? On a project up here we are at the drilling underwater stage and we are searching for air hammer drills but they are running in the 2k range.The Brits are amazing in the techniques they have developed and frequently use!!!

crazyduck
08-02-2005, 04:51 PM
If you look at W.W. Grainger (this is just an example) you will see that most of these air hammers operate at 90PSI.
You could use the low pressure line from your first stage, run it through a pressure reducer and then step it down to 90PSI from 130psi (estimate.) Or detune the 1st stage if it is stable at 90psi.
I would put a quick release or safety shut off valve inline after the pressure reducer for operator safety.

Web link for Air Hammer-
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/searchresults.jsp?QueryString=air+hammer&catindx2=Air&catindx1=Hammers%2C&search_type=keyword

Regards, Andrew




What are they using to drill the shots? On a project up here we are at the drilling underwater stage and we are searching for air hammer drills but they are running in the 2k range.The Brits are amazing in the techniques they have developed and frequently use!!!

Arnold Mesiser
08-02-2005, 07:42 PM
If you look at W.W. Grainger (this is just an example) you will see that most of these air hammers operate at 90PSI.
You could use the low pressure line from your first stage, run it through a pressure reducer and then step it down to 90PSI from 130psi (estimate.) Or detune the 1st stage if it is stable at 90psi.
I would put a quick release or safety shut off valve inline after the pressure reducer for operator safety.

Web link for Air Hammer-
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/searchresults.jsp?QueryString=air+hammer&catindx2=Air&catindx1=Hammers%2C&search_type=keyword

Regards, Andrew


Thanks for the help,I have been using an air hammer already hooked to tanks,we need to drill 1/2 x 18" holes so it is not up to the task.I found this
http://www.csunitec.com/rotary/rotaryhammer.html but it is 2000k Can.I can find air hammers easy,it's the air hammer drills that seem to be rare and costly.



Thanks

Doug

crazyduck
08-04-2005, 04:16 PM
Doug,
I spent some time yesterday hunting around for a Pneumatic Hammer Drill like you want with a ½” bit. Dang, you're demanding… I apologize for earlier; I was not aware exactly what you were looking for. After some brainstorming, I came up with a few thoughts.

The only really hard alterative is to perhaps see if you can use a coring bit and a pneumatic drill- I am pretty sure that would not help but the coring bit was the biggest I could get to the size hole you wanted. Estimated cost is around $150.00 for the bit, and you are going to have to figure a way to attach it to the pneumatic drill.

Also, Stanley makes an underwater hammer drill but it is for underwater construction and I don’t want to imagine what that would cost.

Also, I noticed that some groups are doing coring with a drill for coral samples- betcha dollar to doughnuts there might be something down that path!

I placed a call this afternoon to a colleague who is a professional geologist, miner, and general (pain in the ass.) He has been mining for twenty years and sells mining bits for commercial applications I left him a message to call me- we’ll see what he come back with.

Do you know what rock type you are coring or drilling?

Andrew

crazyduck
08-04-2005, 05:02 PM
Ok, he listened and thought for a moment. The suggestion is getting a 3/8” bit air drill. Drilling the surface as deep as you can and then using concrete expansion bolts (home depot) and then torque the crap out of them with the bolt or replacing it with and eye bolt.

Also the coring idea is out- it does not work unless you have circulation inside the coring bit otherwise you get rock flour inside the bit and it binds it up. Plus the pressure needs to be smooth and even or the coring bit will destroy itself.

Does this help?

Andrew

Arnold Mesiser
08-04-2005, 08:24 PM
(removed due to politics)