Unusual OOA

[JerseyJersey]

I had an interesting discussion with someone about the merits of allowing training dives to extend to thirds or just planning shorter dives with specific skills and ending the dive when they are done. My feeling was there was a lot to be learned in regards to your gas management from continuing to thirds….IF you are paying attention. An unusual situation arose I thought I would share for discussion including both an OOA and if I was paying attention.

I dive a Nomad XT and broke a bungee; I was unable to get the same length one to replace it so ended up with 2 bungees the next length longer. Unsure how much this would affect where my tanks sat I joined two other divers on a test run down the Waterhole Tunnel at Peacock. I dive 85’s and my two team mates used larger tanks.

We started off with me in the middle and it didn’t take long to realize there was an issue with the tanks hanging too low. I found myself having to either lift them in the tighter areas or push the tanks back to inflate my wing and I corrected my buoyancy much more often because I was not used to having something hang lower than my chest during a dive. This was not really an issue just a PIA and I fiddled a bit with my butt plate attachment and pulling up the tank necks as I swam looking for better trim.
We reached the breakdown at the end of the Waterhole Tunnel, an area of silt bottom with the occasional rock sticking up, and turned the dive and I don’t think we were 2 minutes on our way back when an inhale brought me no air. Now your first thought is disbelief, that you made a mistake, another inhale and you will get air. When that doesn’t happen the string of words that run through your brain would make a sailor proud and I did not let them down.

I was lucky to have not one but two different instructors during my training that focused on two things. Managing an emergency and managing gas. I of course switched to my other regulator and in trying to manage my buoyancy I realized that my inflator was not working either. I got to the side where there was more rock than silt and made sure I had my team’s attention. This is where I now realize I owe thanks to these instructors as I had already assessed all my options without looking at my tank yet. From training and using my thirds, I knew how far I could go, what fiddling could cost me in gas and how far back I could get on what was left in my remaining tank. I also knew what should be in that wayward tank and that it didn’t just sneak out while I wasn’t looking. I was paying attention and it is a little unnerving to know how tight it was going to be getting out without help.

Now steadied, I started assessing my regulator and tank when I noted my gauge hose was limp meaning one of two things. My tank was really really really empty….. or the valve had rolled off. An unusual thing to happen sidemounting so therefore not my first thought. Roll off it was and it happened once more on my way out.

In constantly adjusting my tanks and pushing them back to use my wing and drysuit inflator I had slowly rolled the valve off on my left side….. and in swimming out I managed to do it again and much more quickly. The rub of my suit against the valve as I repeatedly pushed it back.

Knowing my gas management and use, and being able to put rough estimates in my head helped quickly assess the problem and not stress too much. Knowing my team had big tanks that were still flowing was even better. Staying calm and doing all this in under a minute I am appreciative of my teachers and mentors.

It was a great dive; I always enjoy the Waterhole Tunnel and Peacock System. Just sharing an unusual type of OOA for others to file away just in case and a reminder to others in training to make sure they take advantage of all you can learn in your courses.

[sskasser]

Thank you, Cheryl. I'm glad it all turned out well and appreciate you sharing this.

[skip]

roll off in sidemount? never thought of it. thanks for the heads-up. cool head too, way to go.

skip

[Greenwood_60]

How are your tanks clocked? I have considered a roll off in side mount, but only long enough to decide it was nearly impossible.

[FW]

How are your tanks clocked? I have considered a roll off in side mount, but only long enough to decide it was nearly impossible.
It is pretty hard to roll-off in sidemount, but not impossible. If you rub the tanks against yourself, like "J.J." did, it can happen. I "clock" my tanks with the 1st stages up, to keep them from dragging on rocks, and the valve knobs towards my body, so they can't rub on rocks, and possibly roll-off, or get damaged.

I have to agree she was really cool. If it weren't for her flashing me, I wouldn't have known there was a problem, even when I was watching her solve the problem. Most times in the past when a buddy had a gas issue, they came flying at me to get gas.

[Greenwood_60]

I "clock" my tanks with the 1st stages up, to keep them from dragging on rocks, and the valve knobs towards my body, so they can't rub on rocks, and possibly roll-off, or get damaged.

I basically do the same, but reversed. My tanks are flopped from BM, regs in towards my body, handles up. Puts the post in prime position for a loop bungee.

[a64pilot]

Mine are reg down and valve out. I used to only partially open the valve as the only equipment failure I have ever had was on my Tr-Mix check out dive, very first breath from the Deco bottle I heard a pop and the reg went to free flow. I had plenty of back gas to deco out on, so I wasn't real worried but it was easy to feather the valve, this taught me to only open the valve a couple of turns so I could turn it off fast if needed. Fast forward to me diving in PC open water with my kids, one of the "wrecks" had a stair case that I swam through and the valve must have rolled against the steel sheet side of the stair case and rolled off. I knew I couldn't be out of air, but didn't figure it out until after I switched regs. Of course I didn't suck a vacuum until I had no air in the lungs, and let me tell you when your lungs are empty, air hunger sets in real quick. Now I do the full open and close only a little thing that I was taught so long ago, again. I think it was the flat smooth steel against the rubber valve handle that made it happen so easily.

[JCGoodwin]

Force of habit I check valves often not even always knowing it anymore.
Not just cave dives but all dives.
BM or SM it keeps valve drills and or emergency issues sharp.

I was on a dive with a new SM diver in OW that had a rub off as well.
It was a good learning experience for both of us.
Thus even if diving a single tank I make it a practice to check the valve.

JCG

[Greenwood_60]

I have a habit of purging my reg to clear it on switches, rather than exhaling to do so. I figure it's better to find out it's off with my lungs full rather than empty.

[AB8CD]

I have a habit of purging my reg to clear it on switches, rather than exhaling to do so. I figure it's better to find out it's off with my lungs full rather than empty.

+1 on this method.

[kwinter]

If it weren't for her flashing me, I wouldn't have known there was a problem.

I have to get to Florida more often.....

[FW]

I have to get to Florida more often.....
:roll:

[RN]

The only times I've ever had roll offs were in sidemount after negotiating tight passages, always on the left side.

Great job, Cheryl!

[JerseyJersey]

How are your tanks clocked? I have considered a roll off in side mount, but only long enough to decide it was nearly impossible.

I carry my tanks valves out and regulators and gauges face up. It apparently has its advantages as well as disadvantages as do all configurations. And just like RN mine was on the left side.

[gschaut]

I have a habit of purging my reg to clear it on switches, rather than exhaling to do so. I figure it's better to find out it's off with my lungs full rather than empty.

Several excellent ideas. I will also take a look at re-"clocking" my tanks to protect both valves and regs. I have been clocking valves down and regs inboard. I'll try regs up and valves inboard.

[a64pilot]

I have a habit of purging my reg to clear it on switches, rather than exhaling to do so. I figure it's better to find out it's off with my lungs full rather than empty.
sounds like a good idea, now to just get the old brain to remember to do it

[diveconjeff]

Interesting weekend. I was at Madison on Sunday (doing a special dive) and had the pleasure of meeting JCOOK. He passed along the story of his dramatic experience the previous day.

Come Monday, I was looking for a "nice, relaxing dive" before heading home. I ran into FW and Cheryl at Amigos and we talked about going to P1 Monday morning. Once on site we agreed on a relaxed dive to the waterhole. I was in front as we began the dive with Cheryl number two followed by FW.

Once we reached the waterhole, the dive was turned and we began our exit.

During the exit, with FW in front (swimming a little faster than his normal pace for some reason :smt102 ), I saw Cheryl initiate a deliberate, non-panicky "attention" signal. I then saw her reaching towards her first stage as though addressing an issue.

In response to her signal, FW turned around, and I dropped down a little to provide a little more light, switched to my necklace reg and kept a hand on my stuffed long hose reg cause it felt like the thing to do.

Similar to what FW noted, OOA situations I had assisted with in the past seemed to escalate very quickly and were generally accompanied by a significantly greater degree of urgency with very little question about the problem.

Observing Cheryl assess her situation then address the problem in a calm and efficient manner was not only a credit to her, but to those that she has learned from as well.

Once she signaled OK, we resumed a relaxed egress back to the entrance.

I left with a "nice, relaxing dive" to ponder.

Cheryl left with a configuration change in mind, (maybe the new bungee will help).

FW left with a thoroughly rinsed drysuit interior and me wondering if I actually zipped his suit all the way shut....

Really enjoyed the dive thanks to you both!

[JerseyJersey]

Forrest was pretty wet.... glad you zipped him and not me.... and a big thanks for the bungee.. Shirley and I will be waiting to hear more on that special dive.....

[sskasser]

.. Shirley and I will be waiting to hear more on that special dive.....

:D :D

[FW]

...with FW in front (swimming a little faster than his normal pace for some reason :smt102 )..

...Forrest was pretty wet.... glad you zipped him and not me...
It is amazing how fast one can swim, when they are freezing :-)

FWIW, the leak wasn't on the side where the zipper closes. I am pretty sure it is the dump valve.

[BabyDuck]

it's wonderful to hear how methodical and calm and smooth you were, cheryl. tuck that thought away for sometime you're feeling down!

[floridakid]

Forrest was pretty wet.... glad you zipped him and not me....

I had someone not zip me up all the way the other day at manatee, since I have been having neck seal issues I just thought my neck seal had completly gave up. 20 minutes into the dive I realized my zipper lacked a good inch from being closed

[FW]

I had someone not zip me up all the way the other day at manatee, since I have been having neck seal issues I just thought my neck seal had completly gave up. 20 minutes into the dive I realized my zipper lacked a good inch from being closed
Brrrr!

[floridakid]

Yep, when I got out my suit had enough water to fill it up to the knee level, lol

[FW]

I finally got around to checking my dump valve, and it was full of sand. I sure hope that was all the source of the leak, because my next dive will be in north Alabama, in 55 degree F water.

[JamesK]

I finally got around to checking my dump valve, and it was full of sand. I sure hope that was all the source of the leak, because my next dive will be in north Alabama, in 55 degree F water.

Ohh. That would give new meaning to a frozen popsicle.

[cavedivingwoman]

I had someone not zip me up all the way the other day at manatee, since I have been having neck seal issues I just thought my neck seal had completly gave up. 20 minutes into the dive I realized my zipper lacked a good inch from being closed

'Had the same thing when I was DMing in Monterey (water in low 50s). The culprit was my b.f.!! He hates dry suits, now I know why.

Cheryl, good job. i had my first-ever roll off in Rocky Horror recently-- a tad disorienting but quickly figured out (I was in b/mounts). Nice job on you!

[rjack]

I'm not imagining how the knob bumped and rolled off but believe it can happen. :)

Re the bungie being too long, I discovered this myself a few weeks ago and just tied a few knots in it to shorten it to my preferred length until I could more permenantly adjust it after the dives.

[ffdiver5597]

Just about the same thing happened to me this Monday while I was just about to leave the crypt.

I just so happened to look down at my right pressure gauge the moment the needle dropped down with my breathe. Bug eyes for a second and then I turned the tank back on. All fixed.

What I think happened was during my long swim my valve and bungee must have kept rubbing against eachother and closed the valve just enough.

I spent this past week changing all of my sidemount configuration, and a couple more might do the trick.

[DA Aquamaster]

Kudos on staying calm.

Regardless of the activity in question, people generally fall into two categories when things really go south and an issue becoems potentially life threatening - they either get very excited and lose it (and those people should then wisely decide cave diving is not for them, assuming they survive) or they get very calm and focused on working the problem.

When issues like this occur, it helps you develop a pretty good understanding of how you'll probably respond if something really serious happens and in turn whether you're well suited to cave diving in terms of personality and temperment.


I dive a Nomad XT and broke a bungee; I was unable to get the same length one to replace it so ended up with 2 bungees the next length longer. Unsure how much this would affect where my tanks sat I joined two other divers on a test run down the Waterhole Tunnel at Peacock. I dive 85’s and my two team mates used larger tanks.

We started off with me in the middle and it didn’t take long to realize there was an issue with the tanks hanging too low.

Bobby showed me something when I was in the initial alligator wrestling stages of sidemount configuration. He demonstrated that you can easily shorten an overly long bungee by just putting a short overhand knot in it.

It's simple enough you can even do it in the water - you just need a firm spot to place the tank on the bottom while you unclip the boltsnap from the D-ring and put a quick overhand knot in the bungee. Then re-snap it and loop it over your tank valve knob.

1 over hand knot equals about 1 size shorter bungee.

It comes in handy if you break a bungee, don't have a spare and have to borrow one, or if you just want to experiment and do the "what if" thing when considering shorter bungees.

Before switching to ring bungees, I also carried a loop of 550 cord in a pocket that I could bird's head onto a D-ring and loop over the tank valve knob in the event a bungee broke, or when schelpping tanks to or from a sink on the harness. Breaking a bungee in a cave with no way to secure the tank would create a real PITA, but the immediate action to get you out with minimal trouble or delay is pretty simple. Even without 550 cord, using a piece of cave line will work.

[Greenwood_60]

Before switching to ring bungees, I also carried a loop of 550 cord in a pocket that I could bird's head onto a D-ring and loop over the tank valve knob in the event a bungee broke, or when schelpping tanks to or from a sink on the harness. Breaking a bungee in a cave with no way to secure the tank would create a real PITA, but the immediate action to get you out with minimal trouble or delay is pretty simple. Even without 550 cord, using a piece of cave line will work.

I have bolt snaps tied around the tank necks for this (and other) purpose. I also keep a double ender for broken tank butt leashes. One end goes on the rail, the other on the hose retainer. I should actually test swimming with both kinds of failures.