observation / question

[TONY CHANEY]

First off I do not SM but I have tried it, understand the use of it and look forward to trying it again. With that said, while looking at the cover of Underwater Speleology vol. 38 #3 I noticed something that I have to ask the experts. Is it normal practice to have the primary reg. clipped off the necklace of the second reg.? It seems to me that in an OOA situation it could be problematic and time consuming.

[mdax]

In my observations if you ask 4 sidemounters about equipment configurations you'll get 5 answers.
I've seen folks configured like the cover, I believe they do it that way so they can always put regs in their mouth and easily grab the reg in zero vis, some actually put both on one necklace.
I keep my left tank on a necklace and my right on a 5' hose clipped to my right d ring, i tie the snaplink just like a normal 7' hose and can get the reg in my mouth even if the snaplink refused to open.

[CaveBuddy95]

So here is another version of an answer:
- in sidemount, there is no such a thing as an abrupt loss of gas or OOA situation.
If one gets to, no gas in sidemount, hoping he is not solo diving, he can get gas from a team member. Once back at the surface he/she should sick proper training from reputable sidemount instructor or quit diving altogether.
If diving in mix team then other team members may need his or her assistance in an OOA situation. But again, if trained properly, not self trained, with the ins and outs of sidemount in OH environment, this diver should wear a long hose and know at any moment in time during his or her dive, what regulator is in use. Just in case!
What do you think?

[Kelly Jessop]

Sidemounting is very individualistic,because there is no Hogarthian/DIR. That being said,if you don't feel comfortable with the person's gear configuration,or during an s drill,there is concern for your OOA assistance,then don't dive. Hurt feelings is better than being a stat.

[CaveBuddy95]

+1 with Kelly

[TONY CHANEY]

So here is another version of an answer:
- in sidemount, there is no such a thing as an abrupt loss of gas or OOA situation.
If one gets to, no gas in sidemount, hoping he is not solo diving, he can get gas from a team member. Once back at the surface he/she should sick proper training from reputable sidemount instructor or quit diving altogether.
If diving in mix team then other team members may need his or her assistance in an OOA situation. But again, if trained properly, not self trained, with the ins and outs of sidemount in OH environment, this diver should wear a long hose and know at any moment in time during his or her dive, what regulator is in use. Just in case!
What do you think?

Thanks Jason, let me try again. If we are diving together and I am BM and you are SM...you have an OOA situation you switch to your other tank or I donate you my long hose and we exit and have a beer or two. If I am OOA you can give me your long hose or just give me one of your tanks. Now the question is, when diving with mixed teams (we do this often) do you think that it is wise to clip off your long hose reg. to your necklace or, as MDAX stated, having both regs. on one necklace?

[ffdiver5597]

Even if the one reg is clipped off, you should still be able to hand off which ever reg is in your mouth. Even if it's on a necklace, once you take a second and figure some things out you can unclip your other reg and donate it.

[mdax]

let me be clear, in sidemount i dive with a 5' hose on my right tank which is either in my mouth or clipped to my right d ring. I don't route the hose around my neck, but have it stuffed in bands on the tank. Left tank is attached to a necklace, my partner is configured in exactly the same way.
I would personally not be comfortable in back mount partnering with a side mounter who either used two short hoses or had their regs both on a necklace. ymmv

[MORGAN]

...in sidemount i dive with a 5' hose on my right tank which is either in my mouth or clipped to my right d ring. I don't route the hose around my neck, but have it stuffed in bands on the tank. Left tank is attached to a necklace, my partner is configured in exactly the same way.

Tracy and I are configured the same way, except that our right tank hoses are 7'. Our most common dive buddy is each other, but we sometimes add a backmounter to the team if somebody at Dive Outpost or Peacock needs a buddy. We just make sure we're all familiar with each other's configuration before diving.

Mike

PS: It seems funny to refer to myself as a sidemounter, though I've been diving all SM for about 18 months. Somewhere deep inside I still agree with Sludge that scuba tanks should be carried where God intended - on my back. :)

[chuuk]

When diving with another sidemount diver (which is the norm) my right hose is long enough only for my use. We practice exchanging tanks one a month with the person I normally dive with. If two sidemount divers are diving together and one is out of air there is a major planning problem. I will say when diving with someone in backmount I use a long hose on the right side. My back up regulator has a long hose and is always with me in my box.
Again equipment is what you feel comfordable with and are you confordable with your buddies configuiration. Planning/training and familiaration are the answer. The equipment I wear has to work for me.

[LakeCountyDiver]

I clip it off to my right D-ring not my neckless

[chuuk]

I clip it off to my right D-ring not my neckless

Same as myself

[skip]

I've tried several ways, a necklace with two female squeeze clips and the regs with the male end of the clips. I could switch regs with both attached to the necklace at all times, but a simple squeeze of the clip releases them from the necklace to hand off. It worked ok, but having two regs near my chiin was a bit of a problem; limited my head movement. I went back to clipping the right tank long-hose (7') reg to the right shoulder d-ring (hose looped under tire tubes on tank, not around neck). The left tank reg is a short hose, on a necklace, and although right now I do loop it behind my neck, I'm getting a shorter hose and running it directly to the necklace. I thought the picture on UWS was interesting and may just try clipping the long-hose right reg to the necklace and see what it takes to disconnect for hand-off. That picture also shows the two hoses crossing over from opposite sides behind the neck. I don't care for that much. I do like a long hose as in backmount and would not hand over a tank in an OOA situation. I'll hand off whatever's in my mouth and/or the long-hose reg and deploy it just like in backmount training. I dive mixed teams as often as not, but also just handing off tanks, the time involved in reclipping, adjusting, changes in buoyancy during the tank exchange.... such a bother. deploying a long hose is quick and easy.

And since we're critiquing the photo, does anyone else think the tanks are a bit low? And where do you get a Pink Computer? I want one. And number three, is she diving wet or dry and is there redundant buoyancy?

skip

[MORGAN]

Left reg on a necklace, right reg on 7' hose either in my mouth or snapped off to my right shoulder D-ring. Neither of the hoses is around my neck; they just come right up my chest from the first stage, and each has a fixed elbow at the second stage. I have thought about putting some sort of breakable link or quick-release hitch between my right reg and its bolt snap, in case for some reason I need to deploy it and don't have time to unsnap it. I haven't tried this - it seems that such a thing might release inadvertently or add length to the bolt snap and let my reg hang down low instead of nice and tucked up. I am hoping that my situational awareness is good enough that if I need to donate a reg, I'll know about it in plenty of time to unsnap it.

I have made more modifications to my SM gear in the past 18 months than I did to my BM setup in the past 5 years. Seems like I'm always fiddling with something. My BM setup is the "Classic North Florida Cave Rig" - maybe that's why it's a classic - no need to mess with it! :)

Mike

[TONY CHANEY]

let me be clear, in sidemount i dive with a 5' hose on my right tank which is either in my mouth or clipped to my right d ring. I don't route the hose around my neck, but have it stuffed in bands on the tank. Left tank is attached to a necklace, my partner is configured in exactly the same way.
I would personally not be comfortable in back mount partnering with a side mounter who either used two short hoses or had their regs both on a necklace. ymmv

And that is what I am getting at. It's in your mouth or attached to your D ring...but not in your mouth and attached to the necklace or any other thing while breathing from it right?

[TONY CHANEY]

Thanks Chuuk...that is the way I would do it if I was in the situation described.

[MedCop]

Right tank has 5' hose looped on right tank held with heavy duty elastic webbing. The right tank second stage is clipped off on my right chest d-ring when not in use. My left side tank has 26" hose with 90 degree elbow at second stage. Left tank second stage is on necklace.

[Kerry C.]

I have a Poseidon with a 5 foot hose on my left tank. The 2nd stage is in a bungee loop on my left shoulder and it only takes a quick pull to free it. I just make sure my buddy knows which reg to go for if he needs to share gas.

[TONY CHANEY]

I have thought about putting some sort of breakable link or quick-release hitch between my right reg and its bolt snap, in case for some reason I need to deploy it and don't have time to unsnap it. I haven't tried this - it seems that such a thing might release inadvertently or add length to the bolt snap and let my reg hang down low instead of nice and tucked up. Mike

Very good info Mike and thanks. OTOH have you tried an old "o" ring to attach your snap bolt to your reg.? You can easily break it with a good pull.

[TONY CHANEY]

Forgot to say that the Underwater Speleology issue is great and to those involved good work. My mask off to you. Thanks.

[diveconjeff]

I dive both BM and SM, although primarily SM in OH env. I regularly dive with mixed teams. I wanted to keep things consistent both for me and those I choose to dive with.

Right tank has a 7 foot hose partially stuffed but but still looped around my neck. When not in use, it is clipped to my right D ring.

The snap is secured to the reg with a strong bungee loop as opposed to cave line. To date it has not come out unintentionally, nor do I expect it to. It will separate with a no-nonsense one handed tug eliminating the need to fumble with a snap at what might be a critical moment.

I see benefits to more direct routing of a 5 foot hose, but am reluctant to surrender the flexibility of the 7 footer.

[TONY CHANEY]

I see benefits to more direct routing of a 5 foot hose, but am reluctant to surrender the flexibility of the 7 footer.

More so if you dive with guys as tall as Artic Mike and Helodiver.

[Marc Bryan]

I can shed some light here. The photo is my wife. It was her second sidemount dive. The bungees were a little long and the tails on the bands were slightly long as well. This has since been corrected.

We clip our longhoses to our necklaces in all of our rigs, including OW. It serves several purposes. What is difficult to see in the picture is the snap is connected to the hose with an oring. This allows instant sliding of the hose when pulled on, and in extreme circumstances it can be pulled apart. It in no way impedes access to the long hose, and is much easier to locate in an emergency than if clipped to a D ring or stuffed down the side of a tank.

[diveconjeff]

Tanks for the enLIGHTenment !

[billyf]

My question is why do you all have your long hose on the right tank?

[MORGAN]

My question is why do you all have your long hose on the right tank?

In backmount my long hose is on the right, so in sidemount I put it on the right as well. Other folks may have other reasons, but that was mine.

[billyf]

Thats what I thought many would say.

so why do you have the long hose on the right side in Backmount?

[Ben M]

In SM, I like the routing of the short hose better on the left tank, so long hose goes on the right tank by default.
In BM, the long hose is on the right post because in gas sharing situations it is more likely to roll off the left post. You don't want to roll off the post to the long hose as that guy can't easily turn the gas back on.

[LakeCountyDiver]

My question is why do you all have your long hose on the right tank?

Well with the hoses I have it just feels right. The 7' has one wrap on the tank and then runs across my chest, around my neck and either in my mouth or clipped off. As for the short hose I would need a much longer hose to go around my neck or much shorter length if I was not going to wrap it.

Having 7' on right and Short on my left just feel right but I am still very new to SM so still playing around with different configurations.

[MORGAN]

In BM, the long hose is on the right post because in gas sharing situations it is more likely to roll off the left post. You don't want to roll off the post to the long hose as that guy can't easily turn the gas back on.

Yup.

[sskasser]

Thats what I thought many would say.

so why do you have the long hose on the right side in Backmount?

Because the voices said to....

[MORGAN]

Because the voices said to....

Yes! 6 years later I can still hear Michael O'Leary's voice in my head! Shirley, do any of your voices have Brooklyn accents?

[billyf]

So let me see if I have this right.

In BM its safety that determines your config

But in SM its comfort that determines your config

I would hate to be the OOA diver at the end of a long hose of a comfort SM diver

If your going to employ a long hose it should always be on the tank that can be rolled off!

[Jay]

In BM, the long hose is on the right in the Hogarthian config which is most commmon for endless number of reasons and discussions. When SM first took off as a popular alternative most folks used two short hoses. It became an issue when diving with mixed teams as donating a steel tank is not something a BM diver is used to. Even a lot of SM divers are not. When I first started doing it I ran into a few people who were using the 7 foot hose on the right and it made sense to me for most situations. I adopted it.
Yes, there was a time when SM was an unusual config!
This is an article I wrote for the Journal in 03 I think. I talked about mixed teams and even SM teams, sharing air and switching tanks. It is still pretty appropriate as it is a fairly basic discussion.

http://www.cavediver.net/forum/content.php/152-The-Rising-Popularity-of-Side-mounting

[billyf]

well I guess I should also ask tank/reg orientation because that makes a difference

valves: inboard or outboard
reg: top or bottom
LH: left or right

[MORGAN]

If your going to employ a long hose it should always be on the tank that can be rolled off!

I don't think that in sidemount one is more likely to be rolled off than the other. The way I'm set up, my tank valve knobs point in toward my body - it would be pretty hard to roll either of them off.

[Tom Kreider]

FWIW, I SM with two long (7') hoses. They run the length of the tank and back up to my face, held in with bands on the tank. Both regs are in a single necklace that works very well for me. The hose from the right tank enters the right reg on the right, and the hose from the left tank enters the left reg from the left. The regs are about two inches apart and don't interfere with each other.

When deploying for OOA drills, I never have to give up the reg I'm breathing. A quick tug releases the 2nd reg and the hose easily deploys. After the drill, I reinsert the reg in the necklace (done without ever having to take out the reg I'm using) and store the hose.

I don't recommend that anyone else adopts this setup. I just wanted to relay what currently works for me.

Tom

[Rich]

I run 2 long hoses and donate the reg in my mouth, as I've been practicing and teaching since 1994, back in the old Air 2 days! As others have mentioned this would be for diving in mixed teams or teaching cave class in side mount, but I don't want "newbies" or myself for that matter to have to think, just hand off the reg in your mouth! I don't change my config for diving real sidemount stuff either, but that's for another discussion. As always YMMV..... :)

Safe diving,

Rich

[FW]

Mine is on the right because the only reason I have a long hose is for BM buddies, and that is where they expect it to be. FWIW, I don't use right handed regulators, so I have no reason to have it on the left.

[FW]

well I guess I should also ask tank/reg orientation because that makes a difference

valves: inboard or outboard
reg: top or bottom
LH: left or right
Valve knobs inboard, regs on top, LH valve on the left. The reason is to protect the valve knob, and the 1st stage.

[TONY CHANEY]

I can shed some light here. The photo is my wife. It was her second sidemount dive. The bungees were a little long and the tails on the bands were slightly long as well. This has since been corrected.

We clip our longhoses to our necklaces in all of our rigs, including OW. It serves several purposes. What is difficult to see in the picture is the snap is connected to the hose with an oring. This allows instant sliding of the hose when pulled on, and in extreme circumstances it can be pulled apart. It in no way impedes access to the long hose, and is much easier to locate in an emergency than if clipped to a D ring or stuffed down the side of a tank.

Thanks for clearing up the silt. What works, works.

[HeloDriver]

I think you posed a great question Tony. I myself (as you know) run with a seven footer on the right tank clipped to my right D ring. I do think often about the logistics of donating a reg in a OOA. Seems quick in practice and S drills but I wonder if there is a more efficient way. I like your idea of an Oring and will give it some thought. It's interesting seeing others thoughts on the subject.

[TONY CHANEY]

Thanks Charles and dive safe.