View Full Version : Looking for a DPV instructor for May 8th - 12th.
Dsix36
04-30-2011, 08:14 AM
I thought that I had it all set up to do this class on May 11th and 12th, but as it turns out my instructor couldn't make it work out.
I will be in the High Springs area for my vacation and would like to get my DPV card while there. The card isn't that important to me (Ginnie is the only place I need it), but I was already psyched about the class and now that the wind got knocked out of my sails, I still want to do it. I am CCR cave with 85 dives and 138 hours thus far. I dive a rEvo if that makes any difference. I can use either a uv-18 or uv-26.
Greenwood_60
04-30-2011, 11:47 AM
Did you check with Rich at CEE?
Slüdge
04-30-2011, 01:12 PM
The card isn't that important to me (Ginnie is the only place I need it)... I am CCR cave with 85 dives and 138 hours thus far.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but 138 hours qualifies you for Abe Davis, which Ginnie accepts for scootering.
Not that a formal course isn't a great learning experience for every cave diver.
Dsix36
04-30-2011, 01:28 PM
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but 138 hours qualifies you for Abe Davis, which Ginnie accepts for scootering.
Not that a formal course isn't a great learning experience for every cave diver.
I was actually shooting for having the 100 dives in before I sent for my Abe Davis. Are you telling me that I don't actually need the DPV card for anything if I am the Abe Davised? I wasn't aware that Ginnie would take that instead.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but 138 hours qualifies you for Abe Davis, which Ginnie accepts for scootering.
Not that a formal course isn't a great learning experience for every cave diver.
You are thinking of Wakula Bronze. Abe Davis is 100 dives.
I thought that I had it all set up to do this class on May 11th and 12th, but as it turns out my instructor couldn't make it work out.
I will be in the High Springs area for my vacation and would like to get my DPV card while there. The card isn't that important to me (Ginnie is the only place I need it), but I was already psyched about the class and now that the wind got knocked out of my sails, I still want to do it. I am CCR cave with 85 dives and 138 hours thus far. I dive a rEvo if that makes any difference. I can use either a uv-18 or uv-26.
Some agencies require you to use a rebreather instructor to take any class wearing a rebreather, even DPV.
Some agencies require you to use a rebreather instructor to take any class wearing a rebreather, even DPV.
Which is as it should be.....
Safe diving,
Rich
Kelly Jessop
04-30-2011, 06:00 PM
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but 138 hours qualifies you for Abe Davis, which Ginnie accepts for scootering.
Not that a formal course isn't a great learning experience for every cave diver.
If I recall correctly it was certified before 1997 with Abe Davis/Wakulla that you could use a DPV without a DPV card at Ginnie.
I believe you're correct Kelly and I would also add that the Wakulla Bronze is for 100 hours spent in the cave, not just in general....
Safe diving,
Rich
Slüdge
04-30-2011, 08:45 PM
Every time I root around in my wallet for a DPV card they say, "You don't need it - you have Abe Davis."
sea2summit
04-30-2011, 11:43 PM
Which is as it should be.....
Safe diving,
Rich
Why? What scooter skill is critical that both be on cc? Either way your going through the same drills and planning.
adam0321
05-01-2011, 01:27 AM
If one is ccr and the other is oc? Would they not both have to. Carry there own bail out? My detract from the course
jkaterenchuk
05-01-2011, 01:49 AM
If one is ccr and the other is oc? Would they not both have to. Carry there own bail out? My detract from the course
Most CCR divers are going to carry their own bailout anyways.
John
stairman
05-01-2011, 05:19 AM
Im wondering how having an Abe Davis qualifies you to be a competant scooter pilot in a cave?
Im wondering how having an Abe Davis qualifies you to be a competant scooter pilot in a cave?
Shhhhh!
Jim Wyatt
05-01-2011, 06:30 AM
Im wondering how having an Abe Davis qualifies you to be a competant scooter pilot in a cave?
Me too....
Kelly Jessop
05-01-2011, 07:25 AM
Im wondering how having an Abe Davis qualifies you to be a competant scooter pilot in a cave?
There was a transition period going on around 1996. There were a lot of people who were scootering for quite awhile with Tekna DV3X,Predators,Farallons etc at Ginnie,and quite competent,so there was a mechanism put in place to grandfather in these people. Ironically,1996 had the largest class of Abe Davis applicants. 1997 to present training with a DPV card required, there has really been a significant decline in the scooter incidents,although more anecdotal and less documented.
i have the abe davis, I have a tekna...., but I sure won't be scootering in a cave anytime soon. I don't mind scootering local quarries or wrecks in the gulf, but adding the task loading to cave diving is a bit more than I care to take on. Perhaps with a better scooter, one not so negative (although i've adjusted the scooter, it still ...). And when I get up the cash for the better scooter I'll add the class too. I consider myself a fairly bright guy, at least bright enough to know that I'm not bright enough to figure out all the unknowns on my own!
reminds me of a scooter mishap recently...fade to memory...scootering along a quarry wall on cruise control the clip on the cannister lighthead mounted on the back of my hand snagged a bit of monofilament fishing line (I didn't see it). Zooommmm! A major sudden right turn, right hand pulled back left hand holding scooter that now crashes into quarry wall and tries to climb the wall pulling me up with it out of control! From peaceful pleasant cruising to disaster in under a tenth of a second. I managed to release the cruise control shutting down the scooter and then extricate the fishing line. I realize there is no fishing line in caves (well, not usually, although here in TN we find all kinds of things in there), but everytime I think I finally know what I'm doing, something unforeseen, unthought of, jumps out and snags me.
skip
I had a great training experience with Dan Patterson (http://www.danpattersondiving.com/Dan_Patterson_Diving/Welcome.html). He has reset the bar of what i expect in scuba instruction.
Line Squirrel
05-01-2011, 11:35 AM
I had a great training experience with Dan Patterson (http://www.danpattersondiving.com/Dan_Patterson_Diving/Welcome.html). He has reset the bar of what i expect in scuba instruction.
Dan Patterson is a no nonsense kind of guy and you will get nothing short of superb training from him. If I had to pick three cave instructors that I thought were the best, he would be on that list, quite possibly on the top of it. I never took a class from Dan but I shadowed him and his class enough times (with his permission) when I lived up there.
Scott
05-01-2011, 12:24 PM
I had a great training experience with Dan Patterson (http://www.danpattersondiving.com/Dan_Patterson_Diving/Welcome.html). He has reset the bar of what i expect in scuba instruction.
I took my first class with Dan in 2003. It was a great experience. I don't use a scooter so I can't talk from that standpoint but as an instructor he is high on my list.
Scott
Why? What scooter skill is critical that both be on cc? Either way your going through the same drills and planning.
'cause it's my opinion that the instructor should be in the same configuration as the student... :)
How would you have felt if your instructor showed up to teach your rebreather class on open circuit?
Safe diving,
Rich
netmage
05-01-2011, 07:42 PM
'cause it's my opinion that the instructor should be in the same configuration as the student... :)
How would you have felt if your instructor showed up to teach your rebreather class on open circuit?
Safe diving,
Rich
How about survey...?
At the 'specialty' level I'm not so sure...
The baseline requirement remains the same, in the event of failure, ccr or dpv, your bailout needs to get you out... No...?
jkaterenchuk
05-01-2011, 08:10 PM
'cause it's my opinion that the instructor should be in the same configuration as the student... :)
How would you have felt if your instructor showed up to teach your rebreather class on open circuit?
Safe diving,
Rich
I am certified on three different CCR's and I would not care what my instructor was using for the class provided he/she was a qualified instructor for the unit. I want the course to be all about my unit, my skills and my configuration. The only case in which I would be concerned is if it was a CCR Trimix class and I was paying the bill for the gas.
If I remember correctly when I was new to CCR I was so task loaded during the course the Instructor could have been free diving and I would not have noticed. I was too focused upon following instructions, performing the skils and swearing at myself for poor bouynacy control. On subsequent courses I had enough experience with CCR diving that I knew what information I needed to get out of the course and what the instructor was using was not important to my learning.
John
sea2summit
05-01-2011, 08:13 PM
How about survey...?
At the 'specialty' level I'm not so sure...
The baseline requirement remains the same, in the event of failure, ccr or dpv, your bailout needs to get you out... No...?
I agree. It's always nice if you can make the instructor turn for gas too:-)
adam0321
05-01-2011, 09:28 PM
Most CCR divers are going to carry their own bailout anyways.
John
I am sure as they should. But if that bailout is dedicated to the ccr diver and something happens to where he needs it. What does the student on OC get for buddy assistance if he should have a malfunction?? I know it is unlikely but we are the kings of what if??
So I would think if one was a ccr diver and the other OC they would both need to carry bail out/buddy bottles..So the added bail out mey detract from the course..
JCDdiver
05-01-2011, 09:40 PM
I had a great training experience with Dan Patterson (http://www.danpattersondiving.com/Dan_Patterson_Diving/Welcome.html). He has reset the bar of what i expect in scuba instruction.
I did most of my overhead training with Dan. Not only is he is an exceptional instructor and diver, he's a great person too.
sea2summit
05-01-2011, 09:47 PM
I am sure as they should. But if that bailout is dedicated to the ccr diver and something happens to where he needs it. What does the student on OC get for buddy assistance if he should have a malfunction?? I know it is unlikely but we are the kings of what if??
So I would think if one was a ccr diver and the other OC they would both need to carry bail out/buddy bottles..So the added bail out mey detract from the course..
This is part of gas planning a mixed team therefore a bonus lesson.
jkaterenchuk
05-01-2011, 09:47 PM
I am sure as they should. But if that bailout is dedicated to the ccr diver and something happens to where he needs it. What does the student on OC get for buddy assistance if he should have a malfunction?? I know it is unlikely but we are the kings of what if??
So I would think if one was a ccr diver and the other OC they would both need to carry bail out/buddy bottles..So the added bail out mey detract from the course..
I thought we were commenting on the DPV Instructor also being on a CCR not a mixed student group. I have no idea what the training standard allow for training of a mixed student group.
Maybe one of the DPV Instructors could comment on how they handle gas management logistics with a mixed student team and if they view an OC student carrying a bailout tank during the course a positive or negative from a skill perspective?
How about survey...?
At the 'specialty' level I'm not so sure...
The baseline requirement remains the same, in the event of failure, ccr or dpv, your bailout needs to get you out... No...?
I hear you Tim!
In my book, training is training, be it cavern, DPV, sidemount, stage or whatever and I think that the instructor should be in the same config as the student.
Outside of training, it's a different story and you're free to do whatever you want. I go back and forth between sidemount and backmount no problem at all, but I'm not that comfortable on my Meg yet. However I've dove with CCR divers plenty and I just treat it as a solo dive, so right now I'd either be in SM or BM with plenty of stages, depending on the situation, of course this will be changing shortly as I get more hrs on the Umbrella Meg.... :)
One of my biggest concerns here also would be liability, as Steve L always says "don't do anything that you couldn't defend in a court of law" and I could see an attorney having a field day with an OC instructor teaching an RB diver or vice versa. YMMV.... :)
Safe diving,
Rich
P.S. There's plenty of DPV CCR instructors out there, two that spring to mind are Jill and Bird and I don't see why an RB diver who wants to learn scooter wouldn't go to one of them or others......
Greenwood_60
05-02-2011, 10:51 AM
Would it be a bad idea for the OP to go OC for the DPV course?
icestac
05-02-2011, 11:02 AM
Would it be a bad idea for the OP to go OC for the DPV course?
DUH! Of course it would be a bad idea... he could run out of gas :D
Would it be a bad idea for the OP to go OC for the DPV course?
Once you go over to the "dark side" you can never go back :-D
netmage
05-02-2011, 11:42 AM
... I think that the instructor should be in the same config as the student.
....One of my biggest concerns here also would be liability, as Steve L always says "don't do anything that you couldn't defend in a court of law" and I could see an attorney having a field day with an OC instructor teaching an RB diver or vice versa. YMMV.... :)
From a liability standpoint - I do believe the instructor should be fully prepared to take control of the dive should things go south... So, in a mixed team instruction scenario, I think they should be trained at the diver level, preferably on the unit in question.
Would it be a bad idea for the OP to go OC for the DPV course?
DUH! Of course it would be a bad idea... he could run out of gas :D
Once you go over to the "dark side" you can never go back :-D
Kinda turns it into a lecture only class, as all the in water exercises are rendered moot in your real-world.... Big fan of the train like you dive mentality...
Diverlee
05-02-2011, 01:27 PM
Would it be a bad idea for the OP to go OC for the DPV course?
Don hasn't dove OC in a long, long time.
Nick Mislak
05-02-2011, 03:09 PM
Why would you want to do a course with an instructor on OC if you are on RB? It just makes no sense. Then the instructor is the limiting factor on gas/runtime/fun. Wouldn't you rather get a much longer dive in with another RB diver?
netmage
05-02-2011, 03:22 PM
Why would you want to do a course with an instructor on OC if you are on RB? It just makes no sense. Then the instructor is the limiting factor on gas/runtime/fun. Wouldn't you rather get a much longer dive in with another RB diver?
Classroom scenarios where your getting your first hands on a scooter are hardly the place for a 2-3 hour dive.
Why would you want to do a course with an instructor on OC if you are on RB? It just makes no sense.....
My thoughts exactly.... :)
Safe diving,
Rich
jkaterenchuk
05-02-2011, 08:33 PM
Would it be a bad idea for the OP to go OC for the DPV course?
You can get a CCR Cave cert without ever having gotten a OC Cave cert.
Why would you want to do a course with an instructor on OC if you are on RB? It just makes no sense. Then the instructor is the limiting factor on gas/runtime/fun. Wouldn't you rather get a much longer dive in with another RB diver?
That's not always the case. I've done dives with RB divers and the dive was turned on time, not gas. All I had was a set of 95s and a stage. Didn't hit turn pressure until we were already heading out. And I'm very conservative with my gas usage, especially on a DPV. It had me wondering why they spent over $10,000 on each of their RB to do dives like that... ;)
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