It's official!!!

[Line Squirrel]

I got the word from our park manager today, Madison Blue Spring State Park will open this Thursday (May 26th) at 10:00am.

Dive teams (NO O/W diving) will be limited to 4 teams in the system at any given time and you MUST check in at the ranger station (like Manatee) so bring your C-cards, you need to leave them at the ranger station. If for some reason there is no ranger at the station, put them on your dash like Peacock but we are supposed to have at least one ranger in or near the shack at all times.

For hours, phone numbers and furthur info: http://www.floridastateparks.org/madison/default.cfm

[Cindy]

Yahoo! Thanks to you, the DEP and Ed Higgins the new manager! He is very pro cave diving. I hope we can keep you both that way. This is a good day for Madison Springs and cave diving. Thanks Mike, Cindy Butler :)

Thanks for the update! Do you need help getting the park ready?

[Line Squirrel]

Thanks for the update! Do you need help getting the park ready?

We're good Chip, me and another guy along with the guys and gals at Suwannee River have been working our tails off for over two weeks getting Madison ready to open, couple more days and it's show time :-D

Ask me after next flood season :wink:

[jpdiver]

Will there be a fee for diving?

also- any knowledge on the dive conditions yet?

[divers4life]

Awesome news! Can't wait to come visit the park!

From the website:
"All State Park Passes will be honored. "
Really? :)

Great job to all involved, we can't wait to get in the water!

[Line Squirrel]

Will there be a fee for diving?


I have been told by or Park Manager that the annual pass will be honored but an additional $5 will be needed for diving.
I questioned him about this and he will be looking into it, for now plan on your pass + $5, like I say, this may change.

[oms121]

Does anyone know if there is a "valid" reason the state is limiting cave diving to 4 teams at a time in systems like Madison and Manatee? Neither are particularly small or delicate and divers have been managing to stay out of each others way or coordinate with each other without government involvement.

Mark

[Line Squirrel]

Awesome news! Can't wait to come visit the park!

From the website:
"All State Park Passes will be honored. "
Really? :)

Great job to all involved, we can't wait to get in the water!

Thank You

I discussed the park pass thing with our park manager at length, here is how I (and my ranger partner) were directed:

If you have a "recreational" (individual or family) annual pass the diving is included at no extra charge.

If you have a regular "Individual" or "Family" pass, you will not pay to get into the park of course but you will have an additional $5 fee to dive.

BTW, I am told the recreational passes are no longer being sold so if you have one, enjoy the benifits until it expires.

We have a team that will be doing fauna counts and water sampling first thing tomorrow so diving will not be allowed untill noon tomorrow ONLY. This is a one time deal, the next sampling will be done on Tuesdays or Wednesdays when the park is closed to all visitors.

I would highly reccomend however you bring a lunch, check in at 10:00am and chill out until noon. I hear a lot of divers want in and we are limiting the teams in the water/cave to a maximum of four, with a max team size of four.

[Kelly Jessop]

Does anyone know if there is a "valid" reason the state is limiting cave diving to 4 teams at a time in systems like Madison and Manatee? Neither are particularly small or delicate and divers have been managing to stay out of each others way or coordinate with each other without government involvement.

Mark

This may be in the management plan for the carrying capacity.
Kelly

[Line Squirrel]

I got some good news & I got some bad news...

GOOD news: there will be NO ADDITIONAL charge for cave divers if you have an annual pass. Individual passes allowes one person entry AND diving.
A family pass allows eight persons entry BUT only allows four diving.

BAD news: EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY, ONLY ONE TEAM WILL BE ALLOWED IN THE WATER AT ONE TIME. Team #2 must wait untill tem #1 is completely out of the water before entering the water. This is due to the size of the pool VS the diver/swimmer ratio.

[jdh]

I got some good news & I got some bad news...

GOOD news: there will be NO ADDITIONAL charge for cave divers if you have an annual pass. Individual passes allowes one person entry AND diving.
A family pass allows eight persons entry BUT only allows four diving.

BAD news: EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY, ONLY ONE TEAM WILL BE ALLOWED IN THE WATER AT ONE TIME. Team #2 must wait untill tem #1 is completely out of the water before entering the water. This is due to the size of the pool VS the diver/swimmer ratio.

That effectively closes the park to diving for me. It's a long drive from anywhere. If you are not the first team in, you will be waiting for hours and you might get one dive in. Teams surfacing will be pressured to get out quickly which could induce other problems. It's hard to imagine, but American Canoe running it was better than this.

I appreciate all the work that went in to getting the park reopened, I'm sorry it ended up this way.

John

[Kelly Jessop]

I

BAD news: EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY, ONLY ONE TEAM WILL BE ALLOWED IN THE WATER AT ONE TIME. Team #2 must wait untill tem #1 is completely out of the water before entering the water. This is due to the size of the pool VS the diver/swimmer ratio.

Mike,just curious what their rationale is. When the Bruic's opened Madison there were no limits,nor were there any problems. On busy days with a lot of swimmers and people jumping off the platform we'd be ask to avoid using the rabbit hole for entrance and exit,and stay off to the side near the steps. I hope during winter months they may loosen this,or you may be like the Maytag repairman :)

[Line Squirrel]

The operations manual for the DEP state that (and I'm paraphrasing here) teams will be limited to one team in the cavern or cave shaft at any given time. It also states that mangement has the ability to alter that number but normaly the teams should be one. This is what our park manager is using as a guide.

I'm not happy about this either guys...please talk to the park manager at Suwannee River State Park, they dictate our policy for Madison and they are more than happy to hear input from you. The park manager is a good guy, he'll listen to what you have to say.

YOU GUYS are going to be the ones that get this changed not me... I already tried to keep it 4 teams, obviously I wasn't convincing enough. Don't forget I'm on your side here, I'm a cave diver too OK? That's why I moved down here. If you don't at least call Suwannee River and express your opinion then ??????

[Cindy]

Hey Mike, What do you think about the feasability of a cave divers only entrance from the area of the run? Tuck around the corner into the rabbit hole. The divers would be out of the way of the swimmers. I think we could round up a couple of people to help us put in a path and steps if needed. Would you take a look and tell me what you think please. Cindy Butler

[Cindy]

Me again, We could also improve the entrance at Martz sink. There are no swimmers there! Think about it and let me know. Cindy :)

[Kelly Jessop]

Hey Mike, What do you think about the feasability of a cave divers only entrance from the area of the run? Tuck around the corner into the rabbit hole. The divers would be out of the way of the swimmers. I think we could round up a couple of people to help us put in a path and steps if needed. Would you take a look and tell me what you think please. Cindy Butler
There used to be a "gentlemen's agreement with previous park management when they were very busy with swimmers. We'd use the right stairs,and once entering the water we stay to the right slope and out of the swimming area. Entering and exit the cave was done at the right entrance,and stay away from the rabbit home;and deco was done on the platform. I'm never aware of a swimmer/diver incident when were asked to do this.

[Gary]

The operations manual for the DEP state that (and I'm paraphrasing here) teams will be limited to one team in the cavern or cave shaft at any given time. It also states that mangement has the ability to alter that number but normaly the teams should be one. This is what our park manager is using as a guide.
The park might as well be closed.

Tell them to return the state funding.

This is a load of CRAP!

:evil:

[curtschu]

Well guys, sorry to say but this is the case when you get government involved in any type of recreational activity. The managers can now sit there a say "what Madison is open to divers, we've done our part"
Just like the Lottery folks. Just more government hoodwinks.
Best thing we can do as a Citizenry is to fight every effort for Government purchase of natural area, because before long the state is going to own every forest and wetland and close it in the name of "conservation"
We are to blame people. We let this happen because it sounded like a great idea when they said it fast. Peacock Springs is the model, Why oh Why can't the Parks Service see this? I wonder if I can get a refund on the Annual pass I just bought??? $80 Shot to SH*T. Bring back Anna.
If the Sheriff had given them half a second’s help with the locals we wouldn't be in this mess. Oh well RANT over. Sorry Cindy I posted while pissed.

C

I have to agree with jdh and Gary. As far as I'm concerned, Madison Blue is closed.

Russell

[aw]

What does the DEP manual mean by cavern/cave shaft? Are they talking about the entire system or just the entrance. Sounds like the entire system, but I wonder if they'd consider 15 minute intervals between dive teams entering? This would effectively space out the teams and reduce the chances of bottle necking. I don't know that you'd be doing more than 15 minutes deco on O2 in Madison anyway (if you had any deco at all) unless you were really doing an agressive dive.

[mcmacken]

I have to agree, this arrangement effectively closes the park to diving. I have to drive a long way to dive and just can't afford to hang around the surface in a queue. The sad part is, this policy seems designed to address a problem that doesn't exist. In previous visits to Madison, swimmers and divers didn't seem to get in each other's way. In fact, a lot of the people swimming there seemed to show a great interest in talking to the cavers and learning more about the spring. Perhaps a polite meeting with the managers might help?

[Cindy]

Hey all, I have already set up an appointment with the new manager Ed Higgins. I am a member of the CSO at the park and we are permitted to dive at Suwannee River. We have an established contact. If you email me ideas or concerns I will print them and take them to Ed when I meet with him. He is a very nice man and is researching the problem right now. My email is butler_cynthia@bellsouth.net give us a little time to work on it. Cindy Butler

[Kelly Jessop]

Hey all, I have already set up an appointment with the new manager Ed Higgins. I am a member of the CSO at the park and we are permitted to dive at Suwannee River. We have an established contact. If you email me ideas or concerns I will print them and take them to Ed when I meet with him. He is a very nice man and is researching the problem right now. My email is butler_cynthia@bellsouth.net give us a little time to work on it. Cindy Butler
Cindy-thanks for your efforts. Look at my previous post in a method that worked in the past for diver/swimmer interaction if possible solutions are needed. Also a consideration is an entrance/exit point at Martz sink similar to Friedman's.

[curtschu]

Thank you Cindy, sometimes it almost seems like the State would rather all users of the Park would just go away. Especially Fringe users like us.
I hope this can get resolved Madison is one of my favorite systems I spent alot of time in there with Mike B. back in the day. Like others have said it is a long way to go and it just won't be worth the trip the way they are setting things up.

[mcmacken]

Hey all, I have already set up an appointment with the new manager Ed Higgins. I am a member of the CSO at the park and we are permitted to dive at Suwannee River. We have an established contact. If you email me ideas or concerns I will print them and take them to Ed when I meet with him. He is a very nice man and is researching the problem right now. My email is butler_cynthia@bellsouth.net give us a little time to work on it. Cindy Butler

Thanks Cindy, I'm sure this will work.

[Gary]

Thanks Cindy.

I can see some need for scooter control - I'd have prefered DPV certs to be recognized rather then DPVs forbidden.

Diver limits I don't see a need for. They don't seem to do any good IMO. They generally make no sense especially in a system with as many braches as this one. The only place diver limits would be a common concern would be Rocky Horror: one team at a time through there would be a good rule.

I hope they can allow some significant lessening of the restrictions.

[lonestarfl]

How about the Martz sink entrance? Is there a limit to going in and out of a "non-swimmer" area.
Lee