Intro rules

[Al]

What are the rules concerning an Intro diver exploring off the main line with a safety reel but not jumping onto another line? Is it permissible at all?

[adam0321]

to my understanding it is...but I am not sure.

[double humper]

A safety reel is not deployed in order to explore. D.H.

[Dark Eternal]

Reeling off the main line but not tying into another line (creating a navigational decision) is no different than a lost buddy drill or lost line drill. It was explained to me this is permissible within reason. I would say there is a no hard set rule for every situation, some side passages are a whole different story than others obviously.

[adam0321]

i agree with not deploying a safety, nor would I encourage using a 1200' explorer reel. But if you want to poke around a bit for jumps by doing what you have described and then plan those jumps as you progress in training...I think that is good practice

[chimie007]

Reeling off the main line but not tying into another line (creating a navigational decision)

The act of reeling off (for exploration or lost buddy) creates a navigational decision as to which direction to take when reeling back in.

[Attchoum]

I would say no you can't according to the rule.

unnexplore tunel have they own set of danger and even a full train cave with no experience should not rush there.

beside, there is so many beautiful and simple dive that you can do as a intro, why trying to make them more complex?

[DA Aquamaster]

That is a no brainer. You create a "t" therefore you create a navigational decision so it is not allowed. A lost diver procedure is an emergency so it is allowed only under that circumstance.

What is allowed is exploring on your primary tied off in open water.

[RN]

One of the skill sets at the Intro level is lost buddy drill. You can't remain proficient in skills without practicing them. I tell my students to practice the skills they learn in each course. While technically, deploying a safety does create a T, you should have been trained in that skill and know how to do it properly. Does this mean you should deploy all 150' of line off your safety? No. But I don't see anything wrong with deploying a safety and running it out 50' or so. That being said, do not tie if off to another line because that is above your training level, make sure you are carrying 2 safeties in case you foul up the safety you are practicing with (I require my students to carry 2 safeties for other reasons), and just make sure you are practicing this skill the way you were taught.

[CaveBuddy95]

Agreed with so far mentioned posts and would ad that Intro divers should if they want 'explore', take the upgrade part of the training. At Intro level you should not 'explore' as it is another ballgame than just putting a jump/safety (???) reel on the main line and wonder off. On top of that, it is in the limits of the diver level - no exploration.

My 2 centavos advice!
:)

[phillip1]

I agree with Atchoum

[Al]

"Explore" was the wrong word to use, what I am thinking is more like "poking around". It has always been my understanding that this was OK, but my Intro days were a long time ago. i will be doing some dives with an Intro friend, and in the end, it looks like it is best to simply ask his instructor. Thanks to everyone for your replies.

[DA Aquamaster]

One of the skill sets at the Intro level is lost buddy drill. You can't remain proficient in skills without practicing them. I tell my students to practice the skills they learn in each course. While technically, deploying a safety does create a T, you should have been trained in that skill and know how to do it properly. Does this mean you should deploy all 150' of line off your safety? No. But I don't see anything wrong with deploying a safety and running it out 50' or so. That being said, do not tie if off to another line because that is above your training level, make sure you are carrying 2 safeties in case you foul up the safety you are practicing with (I require my students to carry 2 safeties for other reasons), and just make sure you are practicing this skill the way you were taught.I normally agree with your reasonong on issues, but in this case I think the room for abuse of this exception or to use it as an excuse for intentionally navigating off the main line is enormous.

1) It's one thing to practice tying a safety spool or reel on a line and conducting a lost diver drill close to the line and/or in large passage or rooms;
2) it's another thing to intentionally tie off a identical or similar spool or reel (hopefully not your actual safety spool) on the line for the purposes of practicing a lost diver drill by swimming a significant distance down another passage; and
3) it's an entirely different thing to tie off a reel on the main line specifically for the purpose of intentionally swimming off the main line.

I suspect divers will do number one, slowly slide into number two and then over time not see the harm in doing number three. After all, each is just one minor shift from the previous practice so what harm could there be?


-----

And consider some of the places this could be done. For example and Intro diver goes down the peanut line and arrives at the water hole jump at about p 850 - close to but not yet at sixths. He or she ties into the main line and proceeds about 100' or so up the waterhole tunnel - a tunnel that is low, potentially silty and with several areas where an improperly secured line could work its way into a line trap. The end result could be an Intro team past their turn pressure in a silt out in a confusing space and now dealing with line traps and another separate line that is not connected to open water.

Worse, they could have decided to do a lost buddy drill up one of the sidemount tunnels around P750-800 - tight, low tunnels that are very puffy and have very old and loose line in them. Given their line plus the laid line and you can now add entanglement of both team members to the previous siltout scenario.

I think it is a really, really bad idea...

[huxley]

linear penetration only, meaning staying n the gold line is the rule.

[Jaydubya]

I plan to stay on the main line and turn on sixths. When that is no lunger fun, I will go on to the next level of training.

[FW]

I plan to stay on the main line and turn on sixths. When that is no lunger fun, I will go on to the next level of training.
Smartest thing said in this whole thread!

[RN]

I normally agree with your reasonong on issues, but in this case I think the room for abuse of this exception or to use it as an excuse for intentionally navigating off the main line is enormous.

1) It's one thing to practice tying a safety spool or reel on a line and conducting a lost diver drill close to the line and/or in large passage or rooms;
2) it's another thing to intentionally tie off a identical or similar spool or reel (hopefully not your actual safety spool) on the line for the purposes of practicing a lost diver drill by swimming a significant distance down another passage; and
3) it's an entirely different thing to tie off a reel on the main line specifically for the purpose of intentionally swimming off the main line.

I suspect divers will do number one, slowly slide into number two and then over time not see the harm in doing number three. After all, each is just one minor shift from the previous practice so what harm could there be?

I definitely set limits when I talk to my students about this. I also teach lost diver drills differently than just tying onto the main line and searching in the current room. If team members get separated it's usually because one of them has unintentionally swam off the main line and into a side passage. I understand what you're saying about pushing the limits and eventually breaking them. Yes, that could happen. It actually does. Do a search and see how many people here have admitted to breaking rules and standards of training before completing cave training. Does it make it right? No, definitely not. Realistically, I know divers are going to be curious about side passages and I'd rather them check them out under their current training than check them out beyond their current training.

[Jaydubya]

I plan to stay on the main line and turn on sixths. When that is no lunger fun, I will go on to the next level of training.

Well I did go on to the next level of training. Full Cave, baby. I hope to see some of y'all around from time to time. I just need to get one of my main buddies (the one with the nice truck) through full cave class and life will be sweet :D

[JamesK]

Congrats on continuing training. I know when I finished my full cave I felt I had accomplished a great deal. Some of my favorite dives are still the ones you can do at Intro level.

[sskasser]

Well I did go on to the next level of training. Full Cave, baby. I hope to see some of y'all around from time to time. I just need to get one of my main buddies (the one with the nice truck) through full cave class and life will be sweet :D

Congratulations!

[double humper]

Well I did go on to the next level of training. Full Cave, baby. I hope to see some of y'all around from time to time. I just need to get one of my main buddies (the one with the nice truck) through full cave class and life will be sweet :D

Just make sure he's (the one who knows how to stay alive underwater) too ;)