Training Circuits

[mag3]

Preface: NO, I AM NOT GOING TO EXCEED THE LEVEL OF MY TRAINING!!!


I was just curious... :-D For those of you who are "full cave," what circuit(s) did you do in which sites for your full cave training class? I'm just trying to consider what might be appropriate circuits to do for such a class. From what I've seen so far, it appears the "Bone Room" circuit in Devils is the favorite. I'm just hoping for a little "diversity" here.

Thanks much in advance. :)

[netmage]

Crossover tunnel @ Peacock...
Godzilla tunnel @ Madison...
Serpentine\MerryGoRound @ Little River

These should all be do-able on backgas thirds.

[sandy]

JB - Young Siphon (if that is the name)
JB - Horseshoe

[Tegg]

Preface: NO, I AM NOT GOING TO EXCEED THE LEVEL OF MY TRAINING!!!


I was just curious... :-D For those of you who are "full cave," what circuit(s) did you do in which sites for your full cave training class? I'm just trying to consider what might be appropriate circuits to do for such a class. From what I've seen so far, it appears the "Bone Room" circuit in Devils is the favorite. I'm just hoping for a little "diversity" here.

Thanks much in advance. :)

Shouldn't your instructor pick this stuff?

[mag3]

Shouldn't your instructor pick this stuff? In the end, most likely.... But there's nothing wrong with me stating a few preferences and negotiating for them.... :)

[RN]

JB - Young Siphon (if that is the name)
JB - Horseshoe

It's Double Lines, actually, which branches off of Young's Siphon.

I also take my students on a circuit in JB that's not on the map.

[DA Aquamaster]

P1-Crossover - Olsen/Pothole line.
Olsen/Pothole -Nicholsen - Cisteen line.
PIII main line and parallel line.
Serpentine/Merry-go-round at Little River
Mud tunnel at Little River
Godzilla circuit at Madison Blue.

[adam0321]

I also take my students on a circuit in JB that's not on the map.

I don't believe that

[Slüdge]

It's Double Lines, actually, which branches off of Young's Siphon.

I know someone who's done Young's Siphon as a circuit. :clapper

[adam0321]

I have herd a few. Claims to that. One who. Even said he did it with a stage

[Rich]

Bone Room circuit's only two jumps, I like Mainline, Short Cut, Expressway, Bone Room, Mainline done either way, adds a bit of complexity and you can get creative running the jump lines..... :)

Safe diving,

Rich

[mag3]

I was just curious... :-D For those of you who are "full cave," what circuit(s) did you do in which sites for your full cave training class? I'm just trying to consider what might be appropriate circuits to do for such a class. From what I've seen so far, it appears the "Bone Room" circuit in Devils is the favorite. I'm just hoping for a little "diversity" here.

Thanks much in advance. :)

So far, we have


Godzilla tunnel @ Madison...
Serpentine\MerryGoRound @ Little River
P1-Peanut --> Crossover --> Olsen/Pothole line.
Olsen/Pothole -Nicholsen - Cisteen line.
PIII main line and parallel line.
Mud tunnel at Little River

Just out of curiosity, what about a "Bats" circuit at Devils...

Main Line --> Roller Coaster--> Short Cut --> Hill 400 Line --> Main Line
Too ambitious for a full cave class?

Thanks, & Keep'em comming. :)

[Slüdge]

Main Line --> Roller Coaster--> Short Cut --> Hill 400 Line --> Main Line

Too ambitious for a full cave class?

My instructor used the Orange Grove - Peacock 1 "Mile Run" as the full cave graduation dive.

[RN]

[/INDENT]Just out of curiosity, what about a "Bats" circuit at Devils...

Main Line --> Roller Coaster--> Short Cut --> Hill 400 Line --> Main Line
Too ambitious for a full cave class?

Depends on your RMV. We tried that during one of the instructor internships I did but the students turned it on gas. Then again, I don't recall completing any circuits during my instructor internship because of student RMV.

[SuPrBuGmAn]

I know someone who's done Young's Siphon as a circuit. :clapper

You know more than one, it ain't that hard(at all) - done it.

[Me]

oop

[sandy]

It's Double Lines, actually, which branches off of Young's Siphon.

I also take my students on a circuit in JB that's not on the map.

Thanks Rob, I was curious about the name and that one fits.

[Michael Stroeck]

[/INDENT]Just out of curiosity, what about a "Bats" circuit at Devils...

Main Line --> Roller Coaster--> Short Cut --> Hill 400 Line --> Main Line
Too ambitious for a full cave class?


That's a nice dive. Most students probably can't do it within thirds carrying any less than double 120s, though.

[mag3]

That's a nice dive. Most students probably can't do it within thirds carrying any less than double 120s, though.

Precisely what I do carry... (doubled X7-120s "cave filled."). But RN's point in re: RMV is well taken. I'll have to re-evaluate when we're closer to that point in time.

[FW]

Precisely what I do carry... (doubled X7-120s "cave filled."). But RN's point in re: RMV is well taken. I'll have to re-evaluate when we're closer to that point in time.

I suspect he meant the old 120s, which would hold over 180 cu ft. when cave filled. The new 120s only hold 125 or so cave filled.
i.e. 120 at 2400, vs 120 at 3445 (or whatever it is now).

[mag3]

I suspect he meant the old 120s, which would hold over 180 cu ft. when cave filled. The new 120s only hold 125 or so cave filled.
i.e. 120 at 2400, vs 120 at 3445 (or whatever it is now).

Yeah, mine would not hold nearly that much.... But first things first, anyway... Gotta get the RMV under control, as well as determine my "thirds" distances in various sites / environments, etc....

That is, when I'm allowed to dive thirds... :-D

[Michael Stroeck]

I suspect he meant the old 120s, which would hold over 180 cu ft. when cave filled. The new 120s only hold 125 or so cave filled.
i.e. 120 at 2400, vs 120 at 3445 (or whatever it is now).

Oooops, indeed. I was actually thinking about a common European tank size and did a quick and dirty conversion. Turns out it was mainly "dirty"...

[RN]

Precisely what I do carry... (doubled X7-120s "cave filled."). But RN's point in re: RMV is well taken. I'll have to re-evaluate when we're closer to that point in time.

Also keep in mind RMV is usually higher during training dives.

[adam0321]

Especially If rn is your instructor

[T. Bix]

I know this thread is about to have a birthday but it is relevant at least to me right now. I am trying to learn the layout of most of the popular training systems in the area at least as they are laid out on paper in anticipation of taking apprentice and full in a couple months. I am guessing one of the goals of my instructor will to see if he can trip me up or convince me to follow blindly on an obvious or insidious navigational error. And I know that the system layout on paper is not the same as being in there but as I'm Intro right now it would be out of my reach to get to some of these areas to see for myself. But if I have a good idea what the layout is I can at least take a quick look at the compass as a double check. Some of you are talking about how far it is practical to penetrate on thirds and what may or may not be a realistic training circuit. So how far into some of these systems would one expect to penetrate assuming a RMV of around .6 on thirds (during training) and 280 cuft of back gas and appropriate deco bottle? and with the same assumptions what circuits are within reach?

[saxplayer1004]

depends on the depth :-D your SAC rate at .6 isn't bad, but that's at the surface, gotta think about that at depth. A lot of that also depends on your kick speeds. if you're only going 1/2mph then you're not going to be going as far. too many variables for us to help you out. Your instructor should know what circuits you can and can't make. If you can't make it. Full circuits take 3 dives to complete if done properly so a lot of it will be trial and error. What you can do to help is learn where the main jump lines are and at what distance back they are. With arrows every 100 feet and the double arrows at jump points it's fairly obvious back there. Real easy to get turned around, but that's why I have slates with the dive plans on them.

[T. Bix]

Thanx Sax, The gas planning part is no prob and I guess 50-ish FPM is prolly a good rough guestimate but what I don't know is what to expect from the current and vertical aspects of these systems as well as any sort of unique navigational aspects that are maybe common knowledge but unknown to us newbs. Keep it coming!!!

[saxplayer1004]

circuit 101. Plan circuit. Dive the way you're going to start the circuit and stop when you hit thirds. Dive the way you're supposed to come out. If you hit the cookie before you hit thirds you'll make the circuit. You should know to stay at the top, bottom, or side of the tunnel to avoid the biggest bit of the current. Most jumps are marked with double arrows, and distance markers, so you just make sure when you plan the dive that you know approximately how far back each of the jumps are.
Unfortunately, preplanning is difficult as detailed maps of the caves are not online *or if they are, I haven't found decent ones*. Not sure where you're staying, but I know most of the shops have detailed maps on the walls. I ended up purchasing the maps from the CDS and they are fantastic. Nice and detailed and laminated. I do recommend doing that

[RN]

In low flow systems, you should be able to plan 50 fpm swim pace. You can probably plan on 40 fpm for high flow. Most of the maps have depths. You can easily average depth a dive for planning purposes. Then, based on RMV you can estimate whether you can complete the dive as planned or not. The way I teach there's no point in even attempting the circuit if you can't complete it based on your plan.

[Superlyte27]

edit... nm

[rjack]

In low flow systems, you should be able to plan 50 fpm swim pace. You can probably plan on 40 fpm for high flow. Most of the maps have depths. You can easily average depth a dive for planning purposes. Then, based on RMV you can estimate whether you can complete the dive as planned or not. The way I teach there's no point in even attempting the circuit if you can't complete it based on your plan.

Are students required to actually complete a circuit to finish the course? We finished the one we setup in my class but I don't even know if it was mandatory to do that. I think not as that would create an artificial goal which is really pointless in the grand scheme of things.

[Jim Wyatt]

Are students required to actually complete a circuit to finish the course?

No, they are not required to complete a circuit.

[CaveMD]

JB - Young Siphon (if that is the name)
JB - Horseshoe

The young's syphon circuit is not a full cave training level circuit. Its bottle off with 8" tanks and i barely fit with 7.25"

Edit: didn't realize how old this thread was

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[sandy]

The young's syphon circuit is not a full cave training level circuit. Its bottle off with 8" tanks and i barely fit with 7.25"

Edit: didn't realize how old this thread was

Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk

Np - I was corrected later, it is the double lines circuit which starts at the Young Siphon jump and connects with the main line after the first breakdown.

[RN]

Are students required to actually complete a circuit to finish the course? We finished the one we setup in my class but I don't even know if it was mandatory to do that. I think not as that would create an artificial goal which is really pointless in the grand scheme of things.

As Jim stated, no. That's why we plan it out in my classes first. If it won't work on paper it won't work in the water , so we might as well plan something different.