Tying in jump lines

[OneBrightGator]

Just a friendly reminder to all those out there who are making jumps. You may not be the only team wanting to go down that line, especially if you're setting up a traverse and leaving lines for an extended period of time. Obviously, as the first line in the rest of us have to run around and "behind" your line so try to keep this in mind and don't tie in at the back of double arrows or right at the start/end of the side passage.

Safe Diving!

[netmage]

Since we did the traverse this weekend - I'll assume this is aimed at me. And even if not - I know Ben well enough we can give each other **** and I'm certainly able to say "my bad" and I was certainly having a hissyfit w/ my spool in the P1 cavern Saturday morning....

What do you mean by "behind your line".....? So let's make this a constructive thread and revisit the 'common rules of etiquette' on line running.........

I'll start w/ the big two that really erk me....

1. Go under a previously laid line so as to not impair an exiting team already in the cave....
2. Don't bisect the tunnel. Ensure your line is out of the way of the general travel space, tucked and secured as necessary.

[jkaterenchuk]

Just a friendly reminder to all those out there who are making jumps. You may not be the only team wanting to go down that line, especially if you're setting up a traverse and leaving lines for an extended period of time. Obviously, as the first line in the rest of us have to run around and "behind" your line so try to keep this in mind and don't tie in at the back of double arrows or right at the start/end of the side passage.

Safe Diving!

I am having trouble visualizing what your saying. How about a picture or drawing?

John

[DA Aquamaster]

So let's make this a constructive thread and revisit the 'common rules of etiquette' on line running.........

I'll start w/ the big two that really erk me....

1. Go under a previously laid line so as to not impair an exiting team already in the cave....
2. Don't bisect the tunnel. Ensure your line is out of the way of the general travel space, tucked and secured as necessary.I agree with both of the above.

Some of my pet peeves:

1. When someone lays line somewhere easy - like Orange grove or the Eye at Ginne but then lets the line meander back and forth across the tunnel. Pick a side and stay with it and then if you need to cross, do it once near the end and bisect the maion line at close to a 90 degree angle.

2. Building on number 1, bisect the line you are connecting to at close to a right angle. If you tie into the line at close to the same direction the line is running you end up with two nearly parrallel lines and you take up space the could have easily accommodated 3-4 more tie ins. That applies to both primaries and jumps.

3. If you are jumping, keep the line put oof the midle of the tunnel. This is even more important somewhere with heavy diver traffic or scooters. For example the Hill 400 jump at Ginnie if done poorly leave the line mid passage in an area where it is very easy to tie the line off across the bottom of the passage. If you are ever in doubt, your first option should be to see if you can go straight to the bottom of the passage to a convenient tie off. Popular jumps usually have 1 or more rocks strategically placed to accomodate this.

4. Just because the double arrows are centered on the middle of the tunnel does not mean you have to start at/between the double arrows (see number 6). Doing so often leave crossing in the middle of that passage, making it harder for other teams who may follow. Think strategically and perhaps start the jump from the mainline closer to the edge of the tunnel you are jumping to and also consider if I were the second team here, would the line from the first team (i.e. my line) leave me screwed and/or piss me off. If you, so are doing it badly and need to rethink your placement.

5. If you are somewhere with an artificial tie off everyone is going to have to use (the rebar at Little River for example). Consider other teams will follow and don't tie off at the bottom of the rebar but rather start at the top and stay higher on the wall so others can easily lay line lower/under yours. The need for others to go under is also why it is imperative you not zig zag back and forth down the passage. Again, put yourself in the role of a folowing team and evaluate how easily you could lay a second line behind yours.

5a. Same thing applies in tight passages like the first restriction going into Cow. Pick a side and stay with it to avoid crossing or going into the middle of the passage. I have had to re-positon someone else's line coming out (after untangling the diver I was following) to ensure I could exit without getting entangled as it was THAT poorly laid.

6. There is no need to start a jump between the double arrows or to use one of those arrows and as noted in number 4, doing so is sometimes problematic. Personally, I think it makes a lot more sense to place my own arrow or cookie. Just be sure that you do not leave a conflicting arrow or create any confusion.

7. It's mostly common sense and the golden rule applies and as long as you lay line as if you would have to lay a second line after yours, your line ettiquete will improve.

[sskasser]

Also, before getting too unhappy about how a line is run, keep in mind things like that sole line that's tied off at the bottom of the rod in LR might have been third from the top when it was put in. As the others came out and pulled their lines, it left the bottom line looking "selfish". An oddly run line (not run down the center of course, no excuse for that :D) may be that way because of other lines that were in place when it was laid, but have since been pulled.

[alias]

I know particular Ginnie jumps have been often mentioned as fockups for poorly placed jumps. As new Apprentice diver who is starting to anticipate the next trip... are there any specific jump tips for other systems, namely Peacock, OG, Little Liver, Madison. We tend to be early risers when we dive, so we often get the first stab. Any jumps where you could give first timers 'notes' what to aim for and what to avoid? We did our App course during flooding, so we have only done them in Ginnie this far, no experience with other systems off-mainline yet.

[Slüdge]

We did our App course during flooding, so we have only done them in Ginnie this far, no experience with other systems off-mainline yet.

Aren't you supposed to add two new systems at each level? Maybe not, but my instructor did.

[alias]

Aren't you supposed to add two new systems at each level? Maybe not, but my instructor did.

Yeah, you should have certain amount of different systems but as things were they weren't available, instructor did not want to drive to JB ;). Apprentice, when done separately, is only two days though, so we can still catch up on diff systems when we finish Full.

[OneBrightGator]

Alright... in an attempt to illustrate what I mean I have created the attached abomination.

When running a line you should always remember that someone else may want to come behind you and do the same thing. Etiquette and safety prescribe that the second team will run their line behind the first team's so that if the first team returns to the jump in zero-viz they will find their line first, follow it back to the previous line (usually main line) and exit without even knowing the second line is there. When the first team installed their line, their's was the only one there, so that is what they are expecting. The second team knows there were two lines, so they should not be surprised to find one or two lines there if they are in zero-viz.

Personally, I like to tie-off between double arrows, it's convenient and quicker, so that's how I illustrated it.

And btw Tim, despite what you believe, the world does not revolve around you and this thread was not "inspired" by any of your actions. :)

[Dsix36]

I know that I have tied in my jumps in the wrong manner on occassion. I have never even given much thought to a second team wanting to follow my silt trail though.

Thanks for the heads up. I will be sure to correct my line running in the future.

[jkaterenchuk]

Thanks for the abomination I now understand what you were trying to say.

John