Holy !@#$! - read please

[Genesis]

If you're a CDS member, you have to look here

http://www.scubaforum.org/cgi-scuba/akcs-www?post=400

I know, I know, its on my board. But this is a big deal guys and gals. There have been two withdrawals of membership director candidates - if you have already voted your ballot you may have voted for candidates who are no longer willing to serve.

I have much more to say on this, but due to the rules here can't - so I won't. Folks, we need an OPEN discussion on these matters. PLEASE - let's have it where it can be held!

Implosions are NOT fun, and IMHO this is one we cannot afford, given the fact that several sites we like to dive in are managed/owned by the section!

[Gary]

Well if I had actually received a ballot it looks like most of my candidates just left (for understandable reasons).

Wow!

http://www.caves.org/soapbox/showthread.php?t=1208

[Cindy]

Hey Gary, I already voted. :( I think this all is going to be a good thing for the CDS. The public airing of CDS laundry was pretty unproffessional. It has to stop if that organization is going to get anything constructive done in the future. There are ways to say to the Public and the NSS there are problems in the CDS other than the public posting of complaints. It reminds me of high school. The remaining people on the board and the four individuals running who will now automaticly be elected by default are all good hard working people. All the bs we have seen posted lately was done by the individuals who are leaving. This to me was the first sign of caring for the organization I have seen out of those guys since this all started with the public internet discussion of this election. I am sick of it, most of the divers I have spoken to thought it was silly and detrimental to the section. It's time they moved on and allowed the people who are left to get on with running things. I hope we can all just stop the nonsence now and support the people who are showing that really do care about the organization by staying and working for all of the members. I plan on going to the workshop and helping out if I can. Maybe all the bickering can stop and some work can get done. If not in a year you can vote out some of the current BOD. It's about time you ran isn't it Gary?

[Me]

Personally, I don't think an entirely new board is a bad idea given the recent & past events. I have no confidence in the remaining members and would like to see completely new blood.

[Cindy]

Unless your volunteering it doesn't seem constructive to me to continue to put down the people who are left. Unless of course the goal is the total destruction of the CDS. At least the people who are left and their supporters are going to hang in there and try to make things work. Have you voiced your personal concerns to anyone on the board? Do you even know what they are? It's pretty easy to say "just replace the board in view of the recent events". Just what were those events? All I have seen was a lot of internet chatter created by a few individuals. I have yet to see any 'real' actions that any of the BOD have taken to harm the CDS or cave diving. Just a lot of non-specific gossip brought up by people who didn't want to stay and do the job anyway.

[Me]

Seems like you've violated your sig line.

But, yes over the last 4 or 5 years I have communicated to the board more than once my thoughts on various issues or problems. Only a select few have bothered to acknowledge my mail and address my questions, so no, I'm not clueless, thank you.

[Cindy]

lol,I'm not pissed, I'm just sick of what people have been posting that has no basis in reality. So what have the board members done that make you want them all out of office no exceptions? Is Cow open and divable, is Cathedral? Alachua is still divable for the price of a phone call. The workshop is still going to happen. Do you know of any illegal activity they should be arrested for? Bearing in mind Mike and Ken were both on the board until today. I repeat my question to you, are you volunteering to work on the board? Who are all these volunteers you want to replace this board with? They don't get paid, they work a lot of hours and from what you are saying put up with a lot of complaints. There is the election next year. I'll vote for you if you have a good platform. Actions still speak louder than words in my reality. Cindy :)

[Genesis]

I'd be happy to volunteer, to the extent that I can from where I live.

I have broadband internet access (a commercial link that can be used to host things), a real commercial-quality DBMS on the servers with REAL backup technology, etc etc etc.

Recordkeeping and administrative stuff? Easy. Getting people to actually do what's supposed to be done ON TIME (like publishing the minutes of meetings, etc)? That's the hard part.

I could not reasonably run for the board, since I simply can't get to the board meetings reliably. Raising an 8 year old as a single parent prevents that, unless we were to move to the Gainesville area.

I'm not into taking cheap shots. But an election that isn't, taken after the ballots have been printed and where there is no option available LEGALLY under the bylaws to start anew, is a problem. It means that either (1) what we get as a BOD can DO all those things, or (2) the organization is history.

Again, I think the issues need a PUBLIC airing out, and PUBLIC commitment. No phone calls, no one-on-one conversations.

IN PUBLIC - so there's accountability to all.

If a promise is made, I want some way of seeing to it that it is KEPT.

[Gary]

It's about time you ran isn't it Gary?
Funny my instructor thought I should run 10 years ago (soon after completing Full Cave). I didn't think it was feasible as I wasn't even a cave instructor.

I'm sill not an instructor but it might be feasible. If the current default board were to offer up new elections I'd put my name on the ballot.

I'm not much for board room politics though - maybe we could get me elected "CDS Dictator" for the year. Maybe we can have enough votes left unsent for a write-in victory.

[Me]

Sure, I'd volunteer if I had the needed qualifications, but I don't. The only qualifications I have is I'm a cavediver, respect ethics and I'm honest. Other qualifications are needed in my opinion. When the AM position was open prior to Mrs. Cline taking the position I thought about it, but it was stressed in the ad that the appropriate candidate needed to reside in Florida. I don't. Granted it's not a board position, but it's a job I could do and do well for the CDS given my education.

Cindy...why don't you run? I'd read your platform, make my decision and might actually vote for you if you had the qualifications I think are necessary.

[SLIM]

Just wondering, why is it that all of the members of the BOD can live outside the state of FL but the AM says it must live in FL. I have always been wondering about that? Can anyone help meout?


SLIM

[Cindy]

Your missing out not living here! I have a spare room you can use till you find a place. More than one cave diver has stayed in it! :) One of my dive buddies offered me a room six years ago and I have not regretted it even once.
I have volunteered to help in any way I can except be on the BOD right now. I have a full time job, guide at two caves, explore/survey on a project that is permitted to the DEP for two state parks and am in the middle of putting in steps at Alachua. I'm more of a doer than a talker and organizer. My chief ability is to take a task given to me and stick to it until it is done. (Nurse training no doubt) Tending to get my feelings hurt has been a real problem. I have a great deal of respect for some of the BOD members even though I don't personally get along with a couple of them. We cave divers are a tough group to deal with. Right now I just want to help them build and repair the CDS. Enough damage has been done by personalities. I have belonged to all of the cave diving organizations at one time or another and still belong to both the NSS-CDS and the NACD. I joined GUE when they had paper cards, IANTD and TDI at one point. I'm not sure but I may have joined PSI one year. I found the CDS to be the best deal for the dollar. I like the socials, the magazine, the workshops are well run, the clean ups and the goals the organization. We all need to stay on track now and not get lost in all the poo that is being flung around.

[bmwcaves]

Very Well put Cindy Lu !

Seems like there is barely ever enough people running to fill all the positions on the BOD anyway.

If you have ever been on the BOD of any organization, then you know what a hellish job it can be.
My hats off to anybody even willing to step into the big pile-o-poo that is organizational cave diving politics...

Brian

[Genesis]

Yep - been on the BOD of a couple of non-profits, and the advisory counsel of ARIN - the internet number registry...... if you think cave diving is bad, you ain't seen NOTHIN.

[rchrds]

Wow- so- cave politics strikes again- I dont even know all the details, but I'm not really suprised. I did a turn on the board and was completely disgruntled by the end of my term- after realizing that the BOD doesnt run the CDS- the instructors do. Anyone who knows me has heard me rail at length about this subject- but the bare bones of it is that $$$ is the root of the evil in semi-organized caving- and cave diving has fallen for it hook, line and sinker. I may not have appreciated the way some of the (those who shall not be named?) used to post- but you have to give them credit- pre-GUE they taught and organized a significant portion of the ACTIVE cave diving community- for FREE. And look at the quality of diver they managed to get, and the level of stuff they got done. If some of the instructors (ours and others) stepped up and taught because they wanted to teach and were dedicated to a higher level of end product- and quit endorsing CAVING FOR PAY we wouldnt have near the problems we have today. Imagine the quality of students we would see if the only return an instructor got was his/her name on the students card and the knowledge that the student was a direct reflection on their skills. Bet the days of 7 day certifications would be out the window.

Dont whine to me about the cost of insurance and all that other crap. If you dont like it- dont teach. That's the tradeoff.

Know how much we gripe about 20 lines in peacock? Imagine if people didnt advertise for cave instruction, how many lines would be in there? not too many. That would be nice.

And of course you say, but if we didnt try to promote membership- there wouldnt be a peacock.

WRONG. If people actually cared about their students- and dove with them all the time- not just for three weekends of class- you would have students that would be members for life- not just that year, who quit after getting bored cause they cant find anyone to dive with, or noone keeps them interested. Those long time students- and members- would be much more interested in supporting the goals of caving organizations. Perhaps there might only be one- instead of four that are all competing for money.

Gee- I wonder what the NSS figured out?

/rant off/

J

[rchrds]

P.S> I vote for Gary for CDS Dictator! Long live Ceas.. uh.. Gary!

Indies for Everybody!

:)

J

Hail Gary!

Russell

[Gary]

Two votes plus myself...three - not bad! :)

Better then I expected. ;-)

[Jay]

I don't really understand what happened but it smells more of politics then it does of a functional organization. I am sure they had their personal reasons and it is very unfortunate.

I believe the remaining candidates and the remaining board members have the integrity and will to turn the situation around.

Jay

[DeWayne]

I'm with you on this one Jay, hope they can put this crap behind them and move forward. If that fails, we can just stage us a coup and install Gary :twisted:

[scoth]

I do not have the details of what is happening within the BOD, but I know that the previous post is right on. I do not post alot because I just do not have enough time to dive and post; But this is important to me. Cave Diving Instruction has gone to the dollar. There is still lots of quality, but this type of diving can not be about the dollar if it is to be successful for the long term. Quality instruction and Instructors who are willing to dive with a student after they are certified is a must. I know of only a few that will do that without asking for a $100 or more for recurrent training, I thought that is what diving was about every time I get in the water "Re-current" training! Look around at the rediculas converstions that occure about type or method of equipment config, who's right / wrong. I do not care if I was trained by someone who practices their methods and shows me ways to improve everytime I get in the water with them. The fix to this problem will be very painfull, because it will cost a lot of people a lot of money.

[scoth]

By the way I was talking about the post from the previous page by RCJRDS!