Don't pull on my line!

[pdoege]

I was in LR Saturday and I had a new experience with people screwing with my line.

I was the only diver there, and the river is up a good 6 feet or so. I tied off to the steps in about 3 feet of water. Good enough that someone would have to get wet in order to mess with it.

My first dive was pretty aggressive, so I decided to do a nice short and shallow second dive.

The water was high enough that the metal spike is at 20', just right for a safety stop. When I was done, I undid the line and it immediately started playing out.

Big fish?

Alligator?

Small boat?

Nope, a good ol boy had rolled up his pants and waded down the steps in order to pull in the line and see what was on the other end.

Turns out there was a pissed off diver down there! Who knew? His buddies had a great laugh and then they all ran off.

I'm not sure how to defeat a sufficiently dedicated idiot. I am thinking of tying off deep enough that he'll have to get his underwear wet.

Does anyone have any suggestions or anti-tampering schemes? I am thinking of a tag that says NO! that I can attach to the line.

Peter

[Angie Reim]

I was in LR Saturday and I had a new experience with people screwing with my line.

I was the only diver there, and the river is up a good 6 feet or so. I tied off to the steps in about 3 feet of water. Good enough that someone would have to get wet in order to mess with it.

My first dive was pretty aggressive, so I decided to do a nice short and shallow second dive.

The water was high enough that the metal spike is at 20', just right for a safety stop. When I was done, I undid the line and it immediately started playing out.

Big fish?

Alligator?

Small boat?

Nope, a good ol boy had rolled up his pants and waded down the steps in order to pull in the line and see what was on the other end.

Turns out there was a pissed off diver down there! Who knew? His buddies had a great laugh and then they all ran off.

I'm not sure how to defeat a sufficiently dedicated idiot. I am thinking of tying off deep enough that he'll have to get his underwear wet.

Does anyone have any suggestions or anti-tampering schemes? I am thinking of a tag that says NO! that I can attach to the line.

Peter


:lol: Oh my God!!! That's hilarious. Okay, okay....as a cave diver I understand the annoyance but as a good 'ol gal I would've almost wet my pants laughing at the guy. The cave line tied to the steps looks like a bait bucket line. He probably wanted to see the catch of the day or what was in the bait bucket. Imagine his surprise!

I've tied off to those steps in the past but I've placed it low against the bottom where it's not so visible. All I can suggest is that you place a secure secondary tie off next time (which I assume you did to the stake) that can't be pulled off (like maybe the tree or another rock) and then perhaps a third at the stake. That way if a dedicated idiot breaks the line you still have your bearing toward shore. That's what I learned that the secondary tie off was for (dedicated idiots, etc) -- what a great story! :D

[Dave Lizdas]

sign will not work. Suggest extra tie off or two in open water, superglue cans of beer to walkway to confuse/distract curious onlookers long enough to complete dive.

How clear was LR?

[pdoege]

I have a pic, but do not know how to post...

The water is tannic until the metal stake. About 50 feet vis until the chimney, and then it clears right up. The flow is way down. I got monster swimming penetration on that first dive!

No one has been in the smaller, crappier shallow areas in a while and they are full of silt. I did my best to clean one of them out, but there is a lot of work to do :)

The tannic water is making for very cool and spooky effects at the 20' stop. All sorts of weird refraction effects, and there was a small "chimney" of clear water that reached close to the surface. A very Dante-esque scene.

Angie, I was thinking about a lower tie off. The line was visible from the surface and I think that is what attracted interest. I did not, at the time, equate interest with "let's pull on that!", but now I know.

Peter

[John L.]

Tie a job application to it, that will keep them from messing with it!

[NitroxWarrior]

Thats dangerous as hell, every time i go out to these places i see rednecks drinkin' beer at 7:30 in the morning, people need to stop being so stupid, curious and drunk.

[Genesis]

Torpedo hooked to the line should do the trick. Point and push button. BOOM! :-D

[Aktun]

I have a pic, but do not know how to post...


Use this link, when get the URL of the pic, copy and paste(click on "Img" icon)

http://photobucket.com

[BillBowden]

This would really be funny if it wasn't so potentially dangerous.

Never underestimate the ability of someone to do something totally stupid. I once had someone cut my line to steal a gate clip from it. Which is why we don't use clips anymore.

[pdoege]

The line is just visible coming off of the steps. I'll hide it better next time...

http://tinypic.com/2aq2qd

Peter

PS. If the pic works then I owe it all to Frogman. Thanks!

<< Moderator Fixed >>
Nice Pic! It tells you a lot about Lil River's current condition.
You need to include the extension when uploading, which in this case, is .jpg

http://cavediver.net/photopost/data/504/medium/2aq2qd.jpg

I have a pic, but do not know how to post...

Do you mean you don't have it in digital format? If it is a print, then you do have a problem getting it uploaded. I'm just curious to know if our (newly updated) pictures section is too complex or not working for some.

I just posted (http://cavediver.net/photopost/index.php) 4 pictures taken by Gary L, that were scanned from prints he sent me. Since both my scanners won't work anymore (with XP+), I took them to CVS this morning, and used their complex (to me anyway) computer/scanner to put them onto a disk. It worked like a charm, but I've got to get me another scanner in house.

To get any picture uploaded to this site, from a disk (3.5, CD or hard disk), is easy. Use the Upload Photos link (http://cavediver.net/photopost/uploadphoto.php) on the Pictures page (link above).

Use the BROWSE (there are 3 of them if you want to move 3 at a time) to find the picture file on your disk.

You can upload into the appropriate section or the moderators will fix later.

Upon uploading, initially, or upon confirmation, type in a description of the pic(s), or not.

[pdoege]

Thanks to TJ and Frogman.

Peter

I tied off to the steps in about 3 feet of water. Good enough that someone would have to get wet in order to mess with it.

Will someone explain to an old-school diver when this started, and why?

In the old days we tied off just outside the cave entrance, at the end of the open water zone. The theory is that, even if you lost ALL visibility, you were out of the overhead and you would just have to "go up."

The rebar at Little River is within a foot or two of this spot. I've been using it as the primary tie-off ever since it was put there. But lately I've seen folks starting their primary practically on dry land.

Saturday I was at Jackson Blue, and my buddy started the primary under the diving board in five feet of water. I thought that was unusual, but someone else did it later in the day.

Is this what is being taught nowadays?

Russell

[Angie Reim]

Naw! It's just dark and scary trying to find the boil in LR when the river's up. The line from the steps kind of helps to orient you. Last time I tried without it with the river up I initially headed for the wrong entrance I can't tell you why the guy did the thing at JB. As far as I know, it's still one continuous line just to open water for new students.

[pdoege]

I use the line to keep myself oriented in the zero vis river water. I do the same at Telford when it is really yucky.

If I can see more than about 10 feet then I don't run a line to shore.

Peter

[Caver95]

I tied off to the steps in about 3 feet of water. Good enough that someone would have to get wet in order to mess with it.

Will someone explain to an old-school diver when this started, and why?

In the old days we tied off just outside the cave entrance, at the end of the open water zone. The theory is that, even if you lost ALL visibility, you were out of the overhead and you would just have to "go up."

The rebar at Little River is within a foot or two of this spot. I've been using it as the primary tie-off ever since it was put there. But lately I've seen folks starting their primary practically on dry land.

Saturday I was at Jackson Blue, and my buddy started the primary under the diving board in five feet of water. I thought that was unusual, but someone else did it later in the day.

Is this what is being taught nowadays?

Russell

I feel the best place to tie off is to a six pack in your cooler, this is so when you hit your 20ft stop, you can switch your computer to beer mode, this cuts deco time in half!
so if your line is to the six pack in the cooler, all you have to do is pull, it will jump out of the cooler, and bam ice cooled beerin hand for deco. Just remember if you have support personel, a line is not needed. but one does need many people for support, Level one buying and chilling of beer, this level is for the guys who are new and are still learning a great deal. There job is to buy the beer, you leave it up to them to choose which brand, this is a test of character. secondly they must provide ice and a cooler. It takes a long time at this level but if one is a fast learner he/she could move to level 2 very fast, Level 2 is bringing beer from the cooler to the deco habitat. When one wish to move to level 2 they must take a test, and provide gear, scooters, stage bottles, and a kegorator. So once a person on the team gets to level to they are allowed, I mean qualified to bring Deco Beer from the cooler, to the Deco habitat.

[ARY]

Just remember if you have support personel, a line is not needed. but one does need many people for support, Level one buying and chilling of beer, this level is for the guys who are new and are still learning a great deal. There job is to buy the beer, you leave it up to them to choose which brand, this is a test of character. secondly they must provide ice and a cooler. It takes a long time at this level but if one is a fast learner he/she could move to level 2 very fast, Level 2 is bringing beer from the cooler to the deco habitat. When one wish to move to level 2 they must take a test, and provide gear, scooters, stage bottles, and a kegorator. So once a person on the team gets to level to they are allowed, I mean qualified to bring Deco Beer from the cooler, to the Deco habitat.

+ all bottles should be properly marked for safe operating depth and wired (no zipties or butterfly clips!)
+ END must be calculated for each type of Kindabeer
+ twist-off caps should be operable by hands only (and interchangeable)
+ Kindabeer can be only of three types as specified in Rules
+ Light beer never should be used as it doesn't provide proper "window"

oh i'm so dead now...

[normblitch]

Just remember if you have support personel, a line is not needed. but one does need many people for support, Level one buying and chilling of beer, this level is for the guys who are new and are still learning a great deal. There job is to buy the beer, you leave it up to them to choose which brand, this is a test of character. secondly they must provide ice and a cooler. It takes a long time at this level but if one is a fast learner he/she could move to level 2 very fast, Level 2 is bringing beer from the cooler to the deco habitat. When one wish to move to level 2 they must take a test, and provide gear, scooters, stage bottles, and a kegorator. So once a person on the team gets to level to they are allowed, I mean qualified to bring Deco Beer from the cooler, to the Deco habitat.

+ all bottles should be properly marked for safe operating depth and wired (no zipties or butterfly clips!)
+ END must be calculated for each type of Kindabeer
+ twist-off caps should be operable by hands only (and interchangeable)
+ Kindabeer can be only of three types as specified in Rules
+ Light beer never should be used as it doesn't provide proper "window"

oh i'm so dead now...

European beer should be the ONLY beer allowed, as Domestic beer may get skunky if the primary and secondary coolers fail...Only European beer can be trusted if bailout cooling protocol of Spring Water cooling is invoked...

Norm

[tomhauburn]

Tie a job application to it, that will keep them from messing with it!

I did my final apprentice dive there yesterday. At the FL room it was starting to reverse. One line was left from the steps to the stake when we finished and we were the last one there at the time. Very Cool dive now although doing deco in the river water a bit on the cold side.
As to stoping reels from being pulled I sure everyone has seen the dummy Handgranades that say for the next complaint take a number with a number attached to the pin. That might do the trick,,,but then again it might get thrown at you after he cuts your line off of it. I think attaching the line as low as possible since the waters dark and cold is the best way. One, its hard to see and two unless there is a good bit of beer involved he will not want to get that much of his body in the cold water.

[Genesis]

If you're going to do the beer on deco, the best way is to run a pressurized keg down to the stop depth, with the hose there. That way you don't dilute the beer with the river water, and carbonation is preserved. :)

[Doctor Evil]

Beer on deco... Sounds like an evil plan coming together to lure rednecks into a cave.....

[Caver95]

Light beer never should be used as it doesn't provide proper "window"

Ary this is very true, but remember after every 6 dark beers, you have to switch to light beer, this beer should not be counted as deco beer, and after 3-5 light beers you can switch back to dark as this optimises the "window". Also as I stated earlier, it is up to the new team member to pick the beer, deco is a personal thing, but remember thing kind of beer they buy will show there true character. All my dive buddies drink dark beer, and when it is needed we switch to mix, vodka and grapefuite is my standard mix, you have to watch out for those macho assholes, that think its cool or Fun to just go out on beer watch out for them, they will get you into troble.

[Caver95]

If you're going to do the beer on deco, the best way is to run a pressurized keg down to the stop depth, with the hose there. That way you don't dilute the beer with the river water, and carbonation is preserved. :)
As far as beer on tap, pressurize the keg to what ever ata your @ +12-15psi depending on beer. I find this works best.

[normblitch]

If you're going to do the beer on deco, the best way is to run a pressurized keg down to the stop depth, with the hose there. That way you don't dilute the beer with the river water, and carbonation is preserved. :)

Should the keg be pressurized with Argon, allowing for an improved rate of change of core(keg) temp?

What is the max PPCO2 if pressureized with CO2?

How do you keep the pretzels dry?

Just asking...

Norm

[curtschu]

Gee and I thought I was on the edge, bringing a peanut butter sandwich in the old washtub in Little River back in the day. Times sure have changed. Do you have a problem with people steaing the Tap handle?

[Doctor Evil]

Coach: Can I draw you a beer, Norm?

Norm: No, I know what they look like. Just pour me one.

[normblitch]

Coach: Can I draw you a beer, Norm?

Norm: No, I know what they look like. Just pour me one.

I RESEMBLE that remark....

<g>

Norm

[Genesis]

Gee and I thought I was on the edge, bringing a peanut butter sandwich in the old washtub in Little River back in the day. Times sure have changed. Do you have a problem with people steaing the Tap handle?

Naw - you take off the tap valve, connect a hose, and put the valve on the end - then tie that at the 20' shelf.

This way if some redneck wants a swill he has to freedive down there to get it :lol:

[seaghost]

Saturday I was at Jackson Blue, and my buddy started the primary under the diving board in five feet of water. I thought that was unusual, but someone else did it later in the day.

Is this what is being taught nowadays?

Russell[/quote]

Not what I was taught, but there was no danger of a swimmer pulling the line off (park is closed to everyone except divers) and it was easier. Not only that, but the line would've had to be cut in order to remove it from the primary tie off I used.

[Me]

I was there a week ago today. (3/22) There was a line tied off on the vertical stantion on the lowest step. It ran into the system to about 30 feet as I recall and was tied off on a rock to the right as you are facing in/downward.

Is that line not there anymore?

The water level looks about the same, but there was absolutely no light showing whatsoever from within the cavern. It was a cold, dark deco.

And yes, we made it a looooong way in too, but that deco sure racks up when you have to swim out and not glide!

[JE]

In the old days we tied off just outside the cave entrance, at the end of the open water zone. The theory is that, even if you lost ALL visibility, you were out of the overhead and you would just have to "go up."

Hey Sludge,
How ya doing-! Just a thought here: A hidden tie off is one that only you know where it is at, and one where 'tourists' cannot find, or mess with-! In front of and near the bottom of the entrance is a spot I always looked for to tie off before going in. Everyone should always decide for themselves where it is safest for them to enter & exit from.. Just my two cents worth, so ya all know I'm still alive & kicking-
:)
je

[DeWayne]

snip ... The water level looks about the same, but there was absolutely no light showing whatsoever from within the cavern. It was a cold, dark deco.

And yes, we made it a looooong way in too, but that deco sure racks up when you have to swim out and not glide!

Pass the time by battling the giant crayfish for the ideal deco spot :wink: