NonAccident Analysis

[skip]

The thread and dive report by IowaCaveDiver prompted me to post the question of what leads a diver to the particular gear configuration they adopt for a particular dive. Here's a copy of one of the posts:

"I've posted in dive reports a request from matt just on the mistake of carrying one spool. The idea is that by exploring the thoughts (or lack thereof) that led to the one-spool gear configuration a sort of Non-accident Analysis can take place. Accident Analysis suffers from the lack of a control group or adequate comparisons, which would be an analysis of those situations in which people survive (despite problems with the potential for a bad outcome). No bashing or second-guessing, but an enlightened discussion of the thoughts and actions that lead to carrying one spool might be revealing. Complacency? Tenacity? Dedicated, but Poor Planning? Maybe another thread ?"

So how about posting other "near-misses" and "lessons learned" not just the what and when, but those thoughts and attitudes, actions and behaviors that led up to that particular dive? I wonder how many are complacency (just didn't think about it beforehand), tenacity (that's how I always have done it and it worked fine before), authority (that's how I was taught), common sense (seemed reasonable to me at the time), trial and error (been working it out by trying different ways), etc.

-skip

[FW]

I think it is a great idea. Now I just need a way to make it possible for a member to post anonymously, without having a moderator post for them.

[TommyB]

I think it is a great idea. Now I just need a way to make it possible for a member to post anonymously, without having a moderator post for them.

I can make it so that a guest can post in that section.
The issue is, they would have to log off
then make sure the board did not auto-log them back on

then post in the IRAP section as guest.
Then they would have to remember to log back on :)

I'll look and see if an easier way, but that would be the setup for now, until I figure something else out.

Tommy

[Gary]

I remember in the original IRAP there was kind of a survey - a number of check boxes and simple fill-ins to classify accidents.

One of the questions was "severity" of the accident. It turned out to be extremely subjective in that for some divers a simple light failure was a very serious accident while for others a failure of only one regulator was a minor nuisance.

If the survey is set up again some guidelines might be a good idea. ;)

[Oister]

I can make it so that a guest can post in that section.That could lead to some spam.

[skip]

I do not see the need for anonymity. is there an ethical issue here I'm not seeing or is there a belief that no will come clean if we know who they are?

How about the ability to sign in as Frogman. and Frogman can be one person or many at any given time? Then you say "everyone can read but only frogmen can post; contact the moderator X to join the frogmen." Or maybe Frogmen and Frogwomen. Then to really make it anonymous you assign gender randomly.

-skip

[FW]

I do not see the need for anonymity. is there an ethical issue here I'm not seeing or is there a belief that no will come clean if we know who they are? ....

Some people are embarrassed to admit their mistakes, but we still need/want to analyze their incidents.

[BobK]

Some people are embarrassed to admit their mistakes, but we still need/want to analyze their incidents.

I'll admit my mistakes ! Oh, wait, you mean cave diving mistakes ? Never mind :)

[mdax]

I find that DeepSwim's video's on youtube are a running log of pre accident incidents worthy of analysis and it's really unique because our window into the mindset pre accident is very clear.
I was confused about where to post this video though, would you'all consider free diving around inside a cave a non accident incident or no?
at 5:10 into the video he swims away from the tanks to do a victory lap in the piano room.
Can any of you find something that tops this from a living you tube user?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4NZbsP65_Y

Here's link if the embedded video isn't working for you
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4NZbsP65_Y

[ianr33]

Can any of you find something that tops this from a living you tube user?



How about this? Freediving in a deep overhead.

Difference is, this guy knows what he is doing. (As well as being rather inspirational)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrXQbucZUDA

[mdax]

William Trubridge does 280' no fins freedives, he's totally within his comfort level on that dive to 180....probably a higher danger for his diving safety divers than himself.

[Slüdge]

Skip, what are you driving at? "... the mistake of carrying one spool." I don't carry ANY spools. I prefer reels. And what's wrong with carrying just one if you dive plan is no jumps or gaps? My training said, "Number of reels carried equals number of reels you'll need plus one." Staying on the mainline, I carry one reel. (This does not include the primary reel, which is not "carried.")

[DA Aquamaster]

I think two makes more sense and gives you more options even on the main line.

For example, you are on the mainline, and find a broken/missing section that requires a spliced section of line. If you only have one spool (or reel) your options are to 1) leave it unrepaired - a potential risk if anyone is in the cave ahead of you - or 2) use line off your safety spool (or reel) to make the repair, creating a risk with a shorter than normal safety line.

Carrying an extra spool is no big deal and I can't come up with a good reason not to always have at least two on a dive.

[Marc Bryan]

How about being lost off the line in zero vis. A high stress situation in which it is entirely possible to fumble/drop/foul a spool/reel while attempting to initiate a lost line procedure. Now you have to spend time groping for the lost spool/reel, if you can even locate it, or attempt to unfoul it. I have seen students do this numerous times during drills. It is much quicker to just deploy another safety. I teach to always carry two extras.

Of course you could argue for three or four or twenty, lol, but two seems to be the best solution.

YMMV

Marc

[kmev]

If I carry spools I always carry two because one invariably comes unclipped and I find it on the exit. I only carry one reel 'cause that never self-detaches.

[phillip1]

How about this? theses guys go on a 300-400 meter penetration and swim right by the warning signs we put in place totally ignoring them.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCJta80tEsA

[Slüdge]

Well, Phillip, "comments" for this video has been disabled, so they probably already know what we would write.

[phillip1]

I just noticed that, the dive shop that took them on this "tour" was Scuba Fun in Bayahibe