View Full Version : New NW Florida International Airport
Webmaster
11-07-2009, 10:18 PM
I just got an email from Southwest airlines about their flights to the new international aiport that's being built somewhere near Panama City.
That sounds like good news for dive operations in the area. I should think it would make it more convenient for cave divers coming in long distance to spend a trip diving panhandle caves.
I just got an email from Southwest airlines about their flights to the new international aiport that's being built somewhere near Panama City.
That sounds like good news for dive operations in the area. I should think it would make it more convenient for cave divers coming in long distance to spend a trip diving panhandle caves.
Certainly for "Oriskany" ops that would be great. Just as well for the Marianna and vicinity caves. For the High Springs/Luraville/Ocala area caves, I could do just as well coming into JAX.
But I'd be driving mostly. In fact, for my next trip, I'm going to try something different. I will bring my "oversized" vehicle on the "Auto Train" from Lorton VA to Sanford, and then drive all around Fl. That's only 1.5hrs from where my Dad lives near Bradenton/Sarasota. I am told by Amtrak that SCUBA cylinders are acceptable cargo inside your car on the Auto Train.... We'll see... :eek:
sskasser
11-08-2009, 07:47 AM
Certainly for "Oriskany" ops that would be great. Just as well for the Marianna and vicinity caves. For the High Springs/Luraville/Ocala area caves, I could do just as well coming into JAX.
But I'd be driving mostly. In fact, for my next trip, I'm going to try something different. I will bring my "oversized" vehicle on the "Auto Train" from Lorton VA to Sanford, and then drive all around Fl. That's only 1.5hrs from where my Dad lives near Bradenton/Sarasota. I am told by Amtrak that SCUBA cylinders are acceptable cargo inside your car on the Auto Train.... We'll see... :eek:
Let us know how that works out! The auto station is right near the house, but I've never talked with anyone who used it. Cool option!
alexv
11-08-2009, 09:58 AM
We did the auto train several years ago using the standard coach deal. As soon as we got off the train in Sanford we upgraded to a sleeper. It’s was an experience that I had to do only once.
It’s was an experience that I had to do only once.
The "coach seat" or the sleeper (or the whole thing)? :) Was it at least better with the sleeper?
I look at it this way... It's about 12 hours less driving I have to do one way to/from NJ, and having done the whole round trip this past June by myself (19hrs one way), that would be quite helpful. It will take less overall time as I won't have to stop overnight between segments. And, I'll be a lot less tired upon arrival. The cost of the coach seat is very close to the cost of the overnight I'd have to stay in a hotel halfway through the OW trip. The vehicle transport cost also comes close to the fuel costs for the drive in the same segment (Lorton <--> Sanford), and it's less mileage/wear/tear on the car. And the meals on board are free. Yes, a sleeper is a lot extra, but could be worth it to get a "better" night's sleep than sitting in a coach seat. "Roomettes" (like "Business Class"), are a lot cheaper than "bedrooms" (First Class). They just have less room and don't have private bath/shower facilities.
"Plan your travel, and travel your plan!" :-D
Let us know how that works out! The auto station is right near the house, but I've never talked with anyone who used it. Cool option!
So I see.. :) If you plan to be home just before the Xmas Holiday, perhaps we can organize a lunch of local CDFers in the area while I'm awaiting the return trip departure (I'd be leaving Cave country early morning for Sanford, and the train departs Sanford at 4pm).
I'll PM you closer to departure.
Living about an hour from Panama City, I always compare airfare there and it has traditionally had higher fares with less flight options. Hopefully, Southwest coming in will change things. Even Tallahassee has been on the more expensive side and I usually end up driving to Jacksonville because we end up saving about $200 each!
Webmaster
11-08-2009, 03:28 PM
Exactly, it's not just about having an airport, but where you can get regular flights to and from. And an international airport may open up a lot of routes as a starting point for caribbean flights.
sskasser
11-08-2009, 07:27 PM
So I see.. :) If you plan to be home just before the Xmas Holiday, perhaps we can organize a lunch of local CDFers in the area while I'm awaiting the return trip departure (I'd be leaving Cave country early morning for Sanford, and the train departs Sanford at 4pm).
I'll PM you closer to departure.
Deal!
kgault
11-08-2009, 09:28 PM
Exactly, it's not just about having an airport, but where you can get regular flights to and from. And an international airport may open up a lot of routes as a starting point for caribbean flights.
The Panama City/Bay County Airport is presently billed as an international airport.
There was no need for the new airport other than the politics involved in the land deal behind it :(
The current airport previously serviced larger aircraft than those presently used. There are fewer operators and flights flying out of the airport than when I moved here 11 years ago. I do not expect improved service from moving the airport across the bay.
Keith
The "coach seat" or the sleeper (or the whole thing)? :) Was it at least better with the sleeper?
I look at it this way... It's about 12 hours less driving I have to do one way to/from NJ, and having done the whole round trip this past June by myself (19hrs one way), that would be quite helpful. It will take less overall time as I won't have to stop overnight between segments. And, I'll be a lot less tired upon arrival. The cost of the coach seat is very close to the cost of the overnight I'd have to stay in a hotel halfway through the OW trip. The vehicle transport cost also comes close to the fuel costs for the drive in the same segment (Lorton <--> Sanford), and it's less mileage/wear/tear on the car. And the meals on board are free. Yes, a sleeper is a lot extra, but could be worth it to get a "better" night's sleep than sitting in a coach seat. "Roomettes" (like "Business Class"), are a lot cheaper than "bedrooms" (First Class). They just have less room and don't have private bath/shower facilities.
"Plan your travel, and travel your plan!" :-D
So I see.. :) If you plan to be home just before the Xmas Holiday, perhaps we can organize a lunch of local CDFers in the area while I'm awaiting the return trip departure (I'd be leaving Cave country early morning for Sanford, and the train departs Sanford at 4pm).
I'll PM you closer to departure.
Deal!
I have a date now..... Sat. 12/19. I'll be driving down from Cave country that morning, and all I have to do is check the car into the train. Perhaps we can set something up for lunch. If I don't see you there, you might see me up in Cave country doing a little training. I should be there between 12/13 - 12/19.
Looking forward to it. :)
sskasser
11-22-2009, 02:15 PM
I have a date now..... Sat. 12/19. I'll be driving down from Cave country that morning, and all I have to do is check the car into the train. Perhaps we can set something up for lunch. If I don't see you there, you might see me up in Cave country doing a little training. I should be there between 12/13 - 12/19.
Looking forward to it. :)
Very cool! The chances of me being in cave country on a Saturday, instead of home, are pretty high. If not, you're on for lunch. If so, then we'll make a point to cross paths up there! PM me with your contact info and we'll stay in touch.
Have a great trip!
Shirley
Certainly for "Oriskany" ops that would be great. Just as well for the Marianna and vicinity caves. For the High Springs/Luraville/Ocala area caves, I could do just as well coming into JAX.
But I'd be driving mostly. In fact, for my next trip, I'm going to try something different. I will bring my "oversized" vehicle on the "Auto Train" from Lorton VA to Sanford, and then drive all around Fl. That's only 1.5hrs from where my Dad lives near Bradenton/Sarasota. I am told by Amtrak that SCUBA cylinders are acceptable cargo inside your car on the Auto Train.... We'll see... :eek:Let us know how that works out! The auto station is right near the house, but I've never talked with anyone who used it. Cool option!
OK, as promised, a trip report.
The Travel - The Auto Train turned out to be a rather decent option, with a couple of caveats (below). The process is relatively simple as follows:
1) Arrival at Lorton Station - The station entrance is immediately off of Exit 163 on I-95 in Lorton (within 1-2 lights and south of the freeway bridge). A large sign awaits you there. Upon arrival, you queue up in line to await check in, which begins at 11:30am (and may be delayed if the train hasn't arrived yet so be prepared).
2) Car Check In - Only people with cars can use the Auto Train. Pax. only are not permitted. When you reach the check in booth, your reservations will be verified, and you will be issued an ID code for your car (a large "refrigerator magnet" sign will be slapped on your driver's door), and written in your ticket jacket, which will be handed to you at this window). Do not lose that number! They will match it when your car is retrieved at your destination. An "oversize" vehicle (> 65" in height) is given an "AVnn" number. Otherwise, it's just a regular serial #. You will not be assigned that number until you are ready to give them your car for loading (ie. you can't leave the station with your car once the number is assigned). When at the loading area, you get out, leave your key in the ignition and your driver's window open (and it stays that way, the whole trip). You remove only what you need for the train travel and any valuables, although I found these folks are very careful with your car and it's contents. This is a proud group, and takes care in re: security/safety etc. When you turn over your car, they walk around it with a camcorder, shooting a quick video of it's condition. They also cover the seat and steering wheel with plastic like an auto mechanic. Then your car is loaded onto one of the train containers. There are two levels to a container, and ramps to lead them to either level. They are all "covered" so precipitation is not an issue, but they are not "climate controlled," so temperature *is.* Once your car is in a container, you do not see it again until the destination. The reason why the window is left open is to prevent the train crew from being "locked out" of the car. If your car has a "passive" alarm system (ie, it arms itself when the iginition is off) and/or "motion detection," you need to disable it before turnover. Otherwise, you might have a dead battery at the destination, and that would not be a good thing! :eek:
Once your car is checked in, you must then check in at the ticket window to get your pax. tickets, boarding pass, and meal time assignment (see "Dining" below). You must present Photo ID that matches the name on your ticket (just like Airlines). Then you are set for boarding. You can choose to wait in the boarding area (which is very nice at Lorton - under renovation in Sanford), or you can venture out of the station if you can arrange a ride. There is a shuttle bus in Sanford that will take you on a tour of the city center. But be back on time!!! (see below).
3) Boarding - If the train is on schedule, pax. boarding usually begins at 2:30pm for a scheduled 4pm departure (same in both directions). But be as early as possible. No cars are accepted after 3pm, and no "oversized" cars ("AV" cars) after 2pm. People requiring "special assistance" are boarded a bit earlier. And if you checked in your car, but took "alternate" transportation to visit either city, you'd best be back before 3pm, because that's when they start stacking all the pax. and container cars together. Once that process starts, all the pax. doors are closed and no one is allowed to board (as some pax. cars have to move to accommodate the stacking). In essence, if that's done quickly, the train will actually depart earlier than 4pm. The train carries 33 train cars altogether, including 18 car containers (enough space for 330 vehicles, 600 pax.). It's almost 3/4 mile long, and powered by two GE P42DC EMD Locomotives. Top speed for this train is around 70mph (verified by my GPS enroute). Of course, if the train is late for whatever reasons, the entire process happens ASAP, and the train departs ASAP.
4) Travel - The pax. part of the train is all Amtrak's "Superliner" cars, including sleepers, coach, and dining/lounges. All reasonably modern. There are separate dining/lounge cars for coach pax vs. "sleeper car" pax. The cars are actually very smooth riding. You do feel it a touch when passing over switches etc, but the sound is worse then the sensation. It isn't really that bad. Depending on which car you are in, you might hear the train whistle a lot if you are in the front. But you won't hear the engines so much. They're pretty quiet. I actually liked hearing the whistle so it didn't bother me. At least I could tell when we were about to move (when stopped).
Caveat #1 - "Get a room!" I strongly urge you to buy a room or a roomette. A night in coach is not fun and severely affects your ability to get sleep. If there is any question in re: "claustrophobia," go for the "full bedroom" and not the roomette (if it's really *that* bad, then the Auto Train is not for you). It's expensive, but will make all the difference in your comfort. The roomettes are only the width of two coach seats with just enough length to make up a bunk bed length (Two bunk beds per roomette). Two roomettes face each other with a very small hallway in between (like two paris of coach seats on an aircraft). No sink or toilet, but there are "common" facilities in each car. The full bedrooms span almost the entire width of a car (except for the small hallway), and have private shower/toilet and sink. But they only work when the power is connected (ie. they *don't* work during the stacking/unstacking process). The main couch seat converts into the lower bunk, and the upper bunk drops down. Adjacent rooms can be opened up to create a "family bedroom" if desired, and paid for :-D. There are 5 full bedrooms on the upper level of each car half (A-E). E is closest to the stair well (the middle) of each car. A is closest to the end door in each car (and thus the wheels of the train car - avoid being directly over them). I would get room D traveling southbound and C or E northbound, as the couch seat will then face the correct direction of travel. Otherwise, you'd be traveling "backwards" and that can disorient some people. There is a small seat facing the opposite direction but it's not as comfortable as the main couch. Both rooms and roomettes, contain individual HVAC controls as well as electrical outlets for razors, laptops etc. I believe that AC outlets are also available at coach seats, but not sure. I used mine for the laptop and the GPS (which was cool to watch). There is also bottled water and ice available in each sleeping car. There is no "Wi-Fi" Internet access however... only local "inter-room" Wi-Fi. If you can pick up whatever Wi-Fi access you can get along the train route, then OK (I seemed to get Blackberry access pretty much all along the route). There is a movie shown in the sleeper car lounge at least twice during the dinner period. Perhaps also in the coach lounge.
Caveat #2 - "Sleep may be elusive," no matter what accommodation you choose, especially if you have difficulty falling asleep, as do I. Be prepared to wake up slightly tired, and consider that if you are going directly to cave country from Sanford (about 3hrs), or if you have a long distance to travel to/from Lorton. In my case, I had to travel to cave country and then back down to Bradenton/Sarasota in one day, having not had much sleep the night before. Not a good thing. I adjusted this on the return trip by not drinking any alcohol (I rarely if ever drink alcohol anyway) and sleeping in late that morning. I guess it helped that the train was running late on the return so I could sleep more (and that I downed a "Red Bull" 1hr before detraining). :eek: If there are no freight train or other delays (weather etc.), the train may arrive much earlier than scheduled, so be prepared. If you have no trouble sleeping, then it's a non-issue.
Caveat # 3 - "Bring a truck load of Bonine!" - Those of us who dive off of boats on either coast will know this little gem of a drug. It is OTC Meclazine HCL, a less potent form of Dramamine (and with fewer side effects). It will help a lot with the "motion" issues of the train if you aren't a seasoned veteran of train riding, and, of course, facilitate the sleep issue.
5) Dining - Dinner is served in three shifts (5, 7, and 9pm). You pick your dinner time when you check in to get your pax. tickets. Another reason to get there early.... to get your time choice (and to ensure that you have food left over) :-D. There is a fixed menu but it's very good, and if you select a room or roomette, it's full service with linen/china etc. and the meal is free (may also be free in coach.. not sure). Alcohol, served in the lounge car is *not* free, with the exception being the wine/cheese tasting you get in the sleeper car lounge upon initial boarding. That begins at 3pm, but seasoned veterans of the Auto Train (and I met quite a few) know to show up at that earlier than 3 (ie. almost immediately after boarding) as the shrimp will be gone if you show up right at 3 or thereafter. :-D Seating in the dining car depends on how people arrive. They are simply packed in to each table in order of arrival. If you are only 1-2 persons, you may be sitting with strangers. A family of 3+ can usually get a table together. The next morning, breakfast (continental only) begins at 6am and is totally open (no set time). But I strongly suggest you go as early as possible. If the train is arriving earlier than the scheduled 9:30am, (often as early as 1.5 hrs), the breakfast service interval will be shortened accordingly and you may miss out on it.
6) Arrival - When the train arrives, it must go through the "unstacking" process, which takes maybe 15-30 min. The "special assistance" folks will be detrained 1st, and then a general detraining announcement will be made. Not really an issue, because it will take them a bit longer to get the container cars over to the ramps for unloading. The unloading process is totally "random." Vehicles are *not* unloaded in the same/reverse order as loading. So it really doesn't matter when you arrive for that purpose. As cars are unloaded, the car ID code will be called out (the number from 2) above that you need to remember). Be listening for it. When called, you are expected to go to your car immediately and get all your family inside and go, to make room in the loading area for other cars. You can pull around to the parking lot if you need to repack your car. The entire process can take a while (1-1.5hrs) and you may very well be the last person waiting. In my case, I got my car within 45min to 1hr after the process started (both ways). No issues with the condition of the car or its contents. Only problem there was in Sanford, where there was a nasty little drenching thunderboomer in progress right when my car was being unloaded (remember the drivers window stays open).
Shortest distance to Cave country from Sanford is Fl-46 West --> US 441 North --> FL 44 West --> I-75 North. It's not all highway, but it's the shortest distance, and avoids toll roads.
Overall, I'd give the Auto Train a solid 8 out of 10. I will do it again. And I'll pop for the sleeper car again. It's worth it. There was no problem with gear in my vehicle. They didn't even search it, to my knowledge. Of course, all cars and baggage are subject to random searching as with airlines. So I can bring all the tanks etc. that will fit. Perhaps it helped a little that I had a privacy shade over the back so they didn't see the tanks, but.....
The Diving ---
As for the diving, it was Ok, but mostly it was training. I earned my cavern ticket, and made a little progress with "intro." Got to p.550 in the Peanut Tunnel and p.300 in the Pothole. Did the "lights/out air share" in Peanut and the "lost buddy" in Pothole. We dove the Eye/Ear the next day. That was harder than expected flow wise, but I did get to see some of it, and I did make it all the way through the Eye to the Ear cavern and beyond. I'm sure most of you do that without even batting an "eye." :-D This will take a while for me, and that's OK. Cavern level will do for now. Once perfected and comfortable, I will then continue with Intro training.
Sorry I didn't meet as many of you as I'd like to have, but I did meet a few. BTW, huge Kudos to Wayne at Amigos, Joel at Light Monkey, and Steve Gamble, who is upgrading my drysuit now (adding pockets etc.). Also nice to have met Rich Courtney for the 1st time as well as some others. I will try and time my future visits more closely to the "social" schedule, but it may be a while before I get there next.
If any of you plan to attend "Beneath the Sea" in March up here in NJ, please let me know, and we can try to hook up.
Well, that's the report... Feel free to ask any questions. And Happy Holidays, and a safe/prosperous new year to all. :)
cmalinowski
12-23-2009, 09:59 AM
<snip>...If there is any question in re: "claustrophobia," go for the "full bedroom" and not the roomette (if it's really *that* bad, then the Auto Train is not for you). ...<snip>
Cave diving may not be for those with this problem either :)
JerseyJersey
12-23-2009, 10:33 AM
for those that can sleep anywhere.... the auto train is a homerun.... even the coach seats..... I get a lot of work and little things caught up on while taveling this way.... kind of a captive work period..... have taken it 7 or 8 times already....
Cave diving may not be for those with this problem either :)
Quite true. I guess I was trying to appeal to a more "generic" audience. :-D
Stick
12-23-2009, 11:14 AM
Great report! Thanks!:clapper
Line Squirrel
12-23-2009, 12:45 PM
Great report! Thanks!:clapper
I had to take a nap half way through it....just kidding!! GREAT report!
I had to take a nap half way through it....just kidding!! GREAT report!
Ah, see, all you have to do now is take my report with you and you're guaranteed to fall asleep!!! :-D :-D :-D
Thanks.:)
rox@ucf11
12-23-2009, 01:26 PM
airports being built off of 388 If I remember correctly, I drive that way all the time but dont remember the road names lol
Line Squirrel
12-23-2009, 01:32 PM
ah, see, all you have to do now is take my report with you and you're guaranteed to fall asleep!!! :-d :-d :-d
thanks.:)
roflmao!!
airports being built off of 388 If I remember correctly, I drive that way all the time but dont remember the road names lol
The actual street addr. for the Sanford Entrance is "600 Persimmon Ave., Sanford, 32771" (if you want to program your GPS). Upon exiting the station in Sanford, you turn left onto Persimmon Ave, and then left onto Fl. 46 West (aka W. 1st Street). This takes you to all the major access roads (I-4, etc.). I just Google Map'ed it becuase my GPS dislikes small side streets even though it may be a shorter distance.
For Lorton, as stated earlier, the entrance is immediately off of Ex. 163 of I-95. If coming southbound, turn left at the exit ramp light, go under the I-95 bridge and the entrance is immediately on the left (there's a large sign - you can't miss it).
BTW, the train, technically, is *non stop* Lorton to Sanford. But since it runs on CSX owned tracks, the freight trains have priority and there could be stops while you wait for a freight train to pass (the normal cause of most delays en route). There is also the "meeting point," where both Auto trains meet each other (somewhere around Florence, SC at around midnight). The trains will stop there, and crew members will change (engineers/conductors etc.). The service crew stays on board for the entire trip and are all Lorton based.
Speaking of GPS, if your's is portable (and you have an AC Adapter), bring it on board, and you can track the progress of the train and where you are, how fast you are traveling etc, like the aircraft screen. The track route pretty much follows US-17 from Virginia to Florida.
Powered by vBulletin™ Version 4.0.4 Copyright © 2012 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.