Weighting w/ Razor

[NorthWoodsDiver]

I'm about ready to make the change to diving the razor harness but, as has been my problem in the past, I dive cold water and require about 20lbs of balast when using aluminum tanks. I intend to dive aluminums for my everyday diving so changing tanks is not an option I am interested in looking at.

I know I could thread weights onto the razor or wear a weight belt but I want to over complicate things as usual and design/make something different. It's just my personality. I also wanted to use soft weights which seems to make things more complicated anyway.

I looked at buying a wetsuit vest and sewing some pocket on the inside to hold 2 or 3lb SOFT weights. this would keep the snag factor low and probably be inexpensive compared to things like the omersub harness.

I figure the neoprene vest would also be a point of wear which means its gonna need to be cheap and easy to replace but it should help protect the drysuit/wetsuit under it.

However I'll probably need to have 2 sizes if I plan to dive wet ever again. Or need to use the more expensive super stretch neoprene vests.

So any thoughts on other possible options besides the obvious or maybe some improvements on my idea? Any one tried something like this?

Thanks

[jackass]

I know you want a different method, but this is what I do... it is pretty simple... sorry it isn't more creative!

I have soft weights behind my shoulders on each side, and due to the weights I had lying around, hard weights behind my hips on both sides. No reason why you couldn't do 5 pounds in each of those places... more out of curiosity, what are you doing for buoyancy? I am using a dromedary bag and my drysuit. I feel fine with it, but am curious as to what other cold water divers are using.

[phillip1]

With the Razor you end up using about 80% less weight you use with either and Armadillo or Nomad.
I used to dive the Armadillo and used 6lbs of weight with 2 AL80's in fresh water, now with the Razor I use none, in fresh and 2lbs in salt.
I do not dive in cold water or dry, but I do dive a 7mm wetsuit with a 3mm hood.
I think you will find that you actually need way less weight with the Razor than you were using before.
I find it to beinfinitely better than any other harness out there.

[Ben M]

With the Razor you end up using about 80% less weight you use with either and Armadillo or Nomad.
I used to dive the Armadillo and used 6lbs of weight with 2 AL80's in fresh water, now with the Razor I use none, in fresh and 2lbs in salt.
I do not dive in cold water or dry, but I do dive a 7mm wetsuit with a 3mm hood.
I think you will find that you actually need way less weight with the Razor than you were using before.
I find it to beinfinitely better than any other harness out there.

Do the laws of physics not apply to the Razor? Ok, lets say the Armadillo or Nomad trap air and/or are otherwise buoyant. I could see him maybe dropping the same 6 lbs you did or so, but he's wearing likely wearing a lot of weight. Let's say over 20 lbs or something for his cold water exposure protection, he's not going to drop 80% of that by switching harnesses, unless the razor itself is negative 16 lbs or so ....... :roll:

[NorthWoodsDiver]

I intend to use the dromedary bags as well along side my drysuit.

I may end up dropping a few pounds but there is no way I'll kill all 20lbs so I will need to figure out something. I would us hard weights but I don't like the snag potential they create and if on the waist thay will crowd things a bit I fear. I have dry gloves and cuff rings so keeping things as low profile as possible makes removing tanks easier as well as other tasks.

I dont want to add weight to the tanks either.

[CaveBuddy95]

Should have done your test while in Mexico with Steve!
Now you can re-do your Razor, take more webbing (you'll need extra room) and put 2 5lbs on each hip, 2 4lbs on the back strap and the rest is easy to fit!!
When I was working in harbours in south of france I use to have the ancestor of Razor, it was a weight harness just like Razor (except the sm idea of course) done with webbing, its comfortable as you carry weight around in a balanced way and 'voila'!
Forget the soft weight, if you rip it off in a wreck dive or something, you will loose precious balast!


:arrowgreen

[skip]

How about wearing weights inside the drysuit/wetsuit? a thin sheet of lead sewn in the back of the vest...or a steel backplate/harness inside the dry suit/wet suit?

How about standard hard lead weights threaded on the lower band(s) of your tanks, so the aluminums have the weight of steels?

ankle weights on your ankles and two of them together around your neck?

shoulder pads with a thin curved lead, bra-cup-like, and a velcro strap that goes under each arm to hold them on your shoulders? like those suits of armor shoulder pads. add the knee pads if the shoulder pads keep you too heads down.

anyone try lead in their diaper? anyone still diving diapers?


-skip

[phillip1]

No the laws of physics don't apply to the Razor since you are floating in a sort force field bubble that makes you immune to the laws of gravity, as long as you have the harness properly fitted..:rollguy.
My bad I think you will drop about 6 lbs maybe more withe the Razor, as the Armadillo & Nomad are actually very buoyant.

[Attchoum]

im using the razor, whit my dry. in cenote I use 6 pounds. In st-laurence river in quebec, i use 10 pounds.

I always put two block on my hip and it work for me, put... i was also thinking about a other way when i was in quebec. my idea was to replace the normal webbing by some nylon hydrolic sleeving
http://www.mcmaster.com/#sleeving/=44dtxj
whit that on your harness instead of the webbing you can put outweigh inside the harness.

Also, i find out that clipping my tank on the low profil d-ring was too difficult my my dry glove. To fix the problem, I weld them in a 90 degree angle.

Have fun

etienne

[jackass]

Etienne,
What are you using for buoyancy in the Quebec River?

[Attchoum]

maily my dry suit and a msr dromadary bag of 6 lites when i need some more.

[NorthWoodsDiver]

How about wearing weights inside the drysuit/wetsuit? a thin sheet of lead sewn in the back of the vest...or a steel backplate/harness inside the dry suit/wet suit?

How about standard hard lead weights threaded on the lower band(s) of your tanks, so the aluminums have the weight of steels?

ankle weights on your ankles and two of them together around your neck?

shoulder pads with a thin curved lead, bra-cup-like, and a velcro strap that goes under each arm to hold them on your shoulders? like those suits of armor shoulder pads. add the knee pads if the shoulder pads keep you too heads down.

anyone try lead in their diaper? anyone still diving diapers?


-skip

Thanks for the tips but I think I stated that adding weight to the tanks was not an option I was open to. I dont wear diapers so thats not an option either and why ankle weights even exist is beyond me...

My goal it to minimize snag points and keep the rig flexible so solid plates of lead isn't an option for me either.

On the other hand using tubular webbing for the harness make actually solve my problem... to some extent... though adjusting the harness would be a *****. Any space between belt slides could potentially hold lead shotI may have to look into this option a little more.

[wendellnope]

These are questions for cold-water diving with the Razor-type harness.

1. What are y'all using for an inflation apparatus on the Dromedary bag?

2. How are y'all installing the Dromedary bag so that it doesn't interfere with the D-Ring attachment point on your left/right hips?

[loquat149]

...

3) How do you secure a deflated vs. inflated dromedary around your waist?

I looked at a 10 L and noticed it presents a very low profile while deflated, but could only be inflated about 25% before it significantly shortens and bulges. Seems like we need one which remains flat on its underside next to the body, but expands upward and outward (vertically) when inflated and doesn't shorten horizontally. Perhaps even a triangular shape with the apex directed towards the head?

Can someone chime in on DIY RF welding???

Dave

[phillip1]

I don't dive coldwater and don't need that much lift but maybe this wing would somehow work if you need more lift.

https://www.deepseasupply.com/index.php?product=1332

[jackass]

Bungee stretches, I attach the dromedary around my waist with bungee cord and a double ender.

Inflation/deflation happens with the hose system/ mouthpiece that comes with it, or something similar.

The dromedary sits in the small of your back, doesn't interfere with clipping.

[Attchoum]

Bungee stretches, I attach the dromedary around my waist with bungee cord and a double ender.

Inflation/deflation happens with the hose system/ mouthpiece that comes with it, or something similar.

The dromedary sits in the small of your back, doesn't interfere with clipping.

agree
agree
and agree

this is in fact really easy to use. put it on and it work...

i also one of my friend that use a normal open water bcd jacket inflation style... it's perfect...maybe even better for cold water since is more lift and have a power inflator.

etienne

[ae3753]

Bungee stretches, I attach the dromedary around my waist with bungee cord and a double ender.

Inflation/deflation happens with the hose system/ mouthpiece that comes with it, or something similar.

The dromedary sits in the small of your back, doesn't interfere with clipping.

Agree on all three points as well.

I've taken the Razor on a couple cold water dive days, and used a combination of drysuit and CamelBak for inflation.

[NorthWoodsDiver]

Inflation/deflation happens with the hose system/ mouthpiece that comes with it, or something similar.




As far as I can tell the bags dont come (stock) with a hose or device designed to handle hose nor a bight valve.

however there does appear to be an add on kit for an additional fee:

http://www.mountaingear.com/pages/product/Search_Results_Endeca_New.asp?N=0&Nu=p_rollup&Ntk=s_search&Ntx=mode%2Bmatchallpartial&Nty=1&Ntt=dromedary

though I'm not sure which kit to go with.

Any idea what the lift is on the various size bags 2L, 4L, 6L, and 10L?? I'm leaning on a 4 or 6L for cold water diving with aluminum 80's.

[jackass]

Yeah, unfortunately you need to get the hydration kit with it. They screw you there...

I am not sure on the buoyancy numbers... if I get motivated I'll check for you.

[Swede]

1l (Liter) is 1 kg, 1 kg is about 2 lbs... (move to metric system and life will be much better :yawinkle::smt081)

[FW]

Any idea what the lift is on the various size bags 2L, 4L, 6L, and 10L?? I'm leaning on a 4 or 6L for cold water diving with aluminum 80's.

A liter of water weights the same as a Kilogram, about 2.2 pounds, so a 4L would be about 8.8 pounds, and a 6L would be just over 13 pounds.

EDIT: Oops, missed Swede's reply.

[loquat149]

I wonder if this wouldn't work better than the Dromedary as the bottom is flat and might bulge less when inflated:

http://www.thefirestore.com/store/product.cfm?pID=5522


Also, how do you remove the plastic "handle" from the Dromedary?

Dave

[icestac]

I wonder if this wouldn't work better than the Dromedary as the bottom is flat and might bulge less when inflated

The shape may be better, but it is not available in DIR black :roll:

[wendellnope]

Colleagues, I am exploring a twisty-curvy, small passageway, frigid water cave that has several tight side-passages which I can tell open up into large rooms. It's just getting through the 6'-10' of tight restriction that is hampering the progress. The restrictions are only at the point where the side-passage empties into the main passageway. For this reason, I am preparing to employ a Razor-type system to reduce bulk. So, my question is this ... philosophically, I am struggling with utilizing an oral-inflation system for the Dromedary, such as I am reading that some of y'all are utilizing. I do respect y'all's experience, so I'm asking for some input on the functionality of this oral inflation process, which seems to me to be a step backward in safety and functionality. I apologize for deviating a bit from the "weighting" theme. Thanks.

[FW]

It sounds like you need "no mount". Any small single tank wing, or BC will work, even with a power inflator.

Weight yourself (no tanks) to be neutrak at approximately the depth you will be working. Use your dry suit to fine tune your bouyancy.

Strap your tanks together, and use the small BC to make them neutral.
You can actually use them sidemount, and switch to no-mount at the entrance to the side lead. Just un-clip the back clips, and swing them in front of you, and clip them together, and wrap the small be around them with a bungee.


Colleagues, I am exploring a twisty-curvy, small passageway, frigid water cave that has several tight side-passages which I can tell open up into large rooms. It's just getting through the 6'-10' of tight restriction that is hampering the progress. The restrictions are only at the point where the side-passage empties into the main passageway. For this reason, I am preparing to employ a Razor-type system to reduce bulk. So, my question is this ... philosophically, I am struggling with utilizing an oral-inflation system for the Dromedary, such as I am reading that some of y'all are utilizing. I do respect y'all's experience, so I'm asking for some input on the functionality of this oral inflation process, which seems to me to be a step backward in safety and functionality. I apologize for deviating a bit from the "weighting" theme. Thanks.

[Slüdge]

I'm still trying to decide if we're going to allow a Utah resident to use southern vernacular.


I do respect y'all's experience

[icestac]

I'm still trying to decide if we're going to allow a Utah resident to use southern vernacular.

Give him points for spelling it correctly.

[Slüdge]

Give him points for spelling it correctly.

I wanted to, but technically, since it's a possessive pronoun, the second apostrophe shouldn't be there. But it still looks right! :clapper

[sskasser]

Wendell is one of us'ns, no matter where he lives ;)

Russell, you, however, may get your card revoked for using big words AND for daring to apply "technically" correct grammar rules to the word y'all! Ya ain't 'sposa do that, darlin'! It jus' ain't right! :rollguy

Wendell, y'all have fun up there and keep up the great reports!

[wendellnope]

Don't confuse the "Utah resident" with a Louisiana Swamper by birth. No criticism allowed unless you've sucked your share of Crawfish heads OR kissed your first cousin (her name was Cherry, by the way).

[sskasser]

Don't confuse the "Utah resident" with a Louisiana Swamper by birth. No criticism allowed unless you've sucked your share of Crawfish heads.

Now you're just making me hungry! Breaux Bridge in May ... mmmmmmmmm!

[deepairmike]

I love the bra idea as a weight belt... You could get diferent cup sizes 10#..5#...2#...

[sskasser]

I love the bra idea as a weight belt... You could get diferent cup sizes 10#..5#...2#...

ROFL...this I gotta see in action! Mike, you gonna fab some and bring them to DEMA?

[deepairmike]

Would you wear it inside the suit or outside???

[sskasser]

Would you wear it inside the suit or outside???

Hmmm, good question...Madonna-style!