PADI sidemounting [Archive] - Cave Diver's Forum

tomhauburn

10-13-2009, 10:35 PM

Jay

10-14-2009, 07:39 AM

Got it, have not read it yet. I like the cover pic though!

CaveBuddy95

10-14-2009, 10:20 AM

Hi
Yes, carl is definitely the PADI Tec adviser.
As far as to credit him with the sidemount for rec divers, its far fetched I think.
PADI is interested in ($) new courses and the offer from few CD (Course Directors) was made about SM for recreational and therefore DSAT divers.
The guy who "won" in the deal was Jeff Loflin form Florida, who as a Tec/Cave adviser for PADI as presented an outlined course for SM.
Now, his view on SM is directed at Tec divers. There is another CD who brought up a SM course for Rec divers, One Cylinder SM Diver and for the DSAT Sidemount Diver.
If so many start to stir sediment, PADI sees clear! There is a market for it.
At the last OzTek it was decided that the DSAT branch was going to be changed and they now have sections such as Advanced Wreck Diving, Cave Diving and are looking into RBs as well. Never too late!
But as the world market goes, there is no ruch to put up DVDs, Course supprot and so on. First of, they (PADI) want to see if the project takes off and then, they will back it up full force.
Have a look here http://tecrec.wordpress.com/resources/tdd-technical-consultants/ (http://tecrec.wordpress.com/resources/tdd-technical-consultants/)

:arrowgreen

icestac

10-14-2009, 12:06 PM

There is another CD who brought up a SM course for Rec divers, One Cylinder SM Diver and for the DSAT Sidemount Diver.

What the hell is the point of that?

Here is the course manual:

Put tank on side
Omit tank from back
Call yourself recreational sidemount
You are now ready to advance to "Sidemount II - The Other Tank".

Slüdge

10-14-2009, 01:24 PM

What the hell is the point of that?

Don't get me started.

(That noise you hear is all the other moderators saying in unison, "Don't get him started!")

phillip1

10-14-2009, 01:54 PM

Here in the DR I cannot hear the moderators, so huh..start...lol

CaveBuddy95

10-14-2009, 02:44 PM

Merci Phillip1!

One tank sidemounted diving is actually real fun! It should be tried.
FUN!

:arrowgreen

Cantey

10-14-2009, 03:05 PM

Merci Phillip1!

One tank sidemounted diving is actually real fun! It should be tried.
FUN!

:arrowgreen

Isn't that, uh.....staging? lol.

Jay

10-14-2009, 03:23 PM

Back in the late 80's when we were doing some deep walls and a blue hole we would "sling" a second tank from our shoulder to waist in front of us.
Worked OK for what we wanted.

CaveBuddy95

10-14-2009, 03:31 PM

Isn't that, uh.....staging? lol.

DUH....!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I said, Open the eyes and the mind!!!
ONE cylinder, just one!
And this one, instead of using a crap 'off the shelf' BCD, you use a webbing+BB or if you are more refined, a Razor Harness... still with me???
Well, this one and only cylinder, you place it in a sidemount configuration..See??

Now what do you have?? You have a diver, diving, a single sidemounted cylinder! Ain't that cool!
But you have to be cool about it, otherwise, its just a stage, like any other stage! :yawinkle:

:smt102 I don't know, its simple thing!

:arrowgreen

phillip1

10-14-2009, 03:58 PM

I do that now and then in the ocean, and to tell you the truth, I like it better than a tank on the back with a bc. Hey whatever you find works for you is cool, I think.

Have you seen how Maya and Peruvian women sidemount they're babies, it seems way more comfortable that way than the usual back mount style.

icestac

10-14-2009, 07:13 PM

Ok, I figured out the only valid reason for this configuration is for Monkey diving. :diver PADI is just being plain stupid for trying to call it side mounting.

phillip1

10-14-2009, 08:27 PM

it should maybe be called "half mounting" sounds kind of cool..lol..

CaveBuddy95

10-14-2009, 08:43 PM

Ok, I figured out the only valid reason for this configuration is for Monkey diving. :diver PADI is just being plain stupid for trying to call it side mounting.

I thought Monkey Diving was for monkeys with DPVs??
Does it hurt your VRE (very respectable ego) that PADI wants to call it sm??
Its a very funny way of thinking, indeed!

:arrowgreen

MedCop

10-15-2009, 01:55 AM

What the hell is the point of that?

Here is the course manual:

Put tank on side
Omit tank from back
Call yourself recreational sidemount
You are now ready to advance to "Sidemount II - The Other Tank".

I am still LOL at this!

So, if I sidemount and stage on bottle, does that make me a Sidemount III diver.

What about two stages..does it just progress...Sidemount VI..and so on.

argyris

10-15-2009, 02:18 AM

I was flipping through the journal and noticed that PADI is allowing Cavern courses in sidemount and some of the tec courses now. I think Carl must be having some influence on this area. I met him a few times when he was down to do some solo cave dives in sidemount. I believe he writes a lot of the training material for them.

Anyone thoughts that has read the journal a bit more throughly than I have. Its the one I just got today.

Tom

Whats the point for cavern sidemount? I think according to the standars minor restrictions is not allowed. What is the real use for this? In my opinion its a pure imitation, a bad one actualy. Is PADI still following the NSS curiculum in their cavern courses?

Swede

10-15-2009, 02:35 AM

I am still LOL at this!

So, if I sidemount and stage on bottle, does that make me a Sidemount III diver.

What about two stages..does it just progress...Sidemount VI..and so on.

And what is the problem with calling it sidemount I, II, III and so on...?!?!

SMB's courses got the names; intro to SM, Level 1 Basic, Level 2 Advanced, Stage SM, Multi stage SM... same thing diferent name!

what is ppl problem? is SM only for Super-cool-mega-10000000 dives-cavediver or?
What is the problem that PADI what to run SM courses? I don't se the purpose in mocking PADI or other organisation if they want to start run courses in SM. I thing that it will only make the gear better and improve divers skill and awareness.

10-15-2009, 04:35 AM

Whats the point for cavern sidemount? I think according to the standars minor restrictions is not allowed. What is the real use for this? In my opinion its a pure imitation, a bad one actualy. Is PADI still following the NSS curiculum in their cavern courses?

It's the same point as cavern in backmount. A lot of people are going to sidemount just because they like the weight off their backs and the valves where they can see them. They aren't necessarily doing it to go small. So why not learn the core cave diving skills in the rig you will be diving in the caves?!? I offer all the cave and tech courses I teach in a sidemount configuration because it just makes more sense to me. And PADI has it's own standards that are finally in line with most of the standards out there (except the requirements to become a cavern instructor) and they allow the use of any cavern student manual not just the CDS'.

argyris

10-15-2009, 05:22 AM

It's the same point as cavern in backmount. A lot of people are going to sidemount just because they like the weight off their backs and the valves where they can see them. They aren't necessarily doing it to go small. So why not learn the core cave diving skills in the rig you will be diving in the caves?!? I offer all the cave and tech courses I teach in a sidemount configuration because it just makes more sense to me. And PADI has it's own standards that are finally in line with most of the standards out there (except the requirements to become a cavern instructor) and they allow the use of any cavern student manual not just the CDS'.

Its not the same with backmount. Sidemount is more task loading, plus it has two cylinders not one as in normal back mounts cavern diving. Cavern in doubles is useless expect you are enrolled in a complete full cave course and PADI not having one as far as I know. If the organization that you belong should you give you this option its OK, otherwise don't need to be waived? I asked if they follow the NSS-CDS curriculum, not if they use the CDS manual.

Jay

10-15-2009, 06:24 AM

I just want to clear things up. I read the article at 5 am this morning and it appears to me that Cavern Instructors who are SM certified are allowed to teach students while the Instructor is in SM. I don't believe it says anything about the cavern students in SM. Of course the theory is it will get the students to want a SM class later. :) (and the Instructor is in a full cave config)
Other articles reference teaching Tec classes with students in SM, but I believe that is only after they are SM certified. I have to download the new stuff for my IM.

icestac

10-15-2009, 08:26 AM

I thought Monkey Diving was for monkeys with DPVs??

It looks like fun to me :D

Does it hurt your VRE (very respectable ego) that PADI wants to call it sm??

My problem is that it only has one tank. I think it would be great if they wanted to offer a sidemount specialty with two tanks that has benefits for the diver such as redundancy and self sufficiency. However, the single tank has no benefits -- it is the same amount of weight, no redundancy, etc. I can see very little benefit to simply take the tank from the back and put it on the side.

And what is the problem with calling it sidemount I, II, III and so on...?!?!

SMB's courses got the names; intro to SM, Level 1 Basic, Level 2 Advanced, Stage SM, Multi stage SM... same thing diferent name!

what is ppl problem? is SM only for Super-cool-mega-10000000 dives-cavediver or?
What is the problem that PADI what to run SM courses? I don't se the purpose in mocking PADI or other organisation if they want to start run courses in SM. I thing that it will only make the gear better and improve divers skill and awareness.

Again, the problem is not with levels or teaching it in general -- it is solely with the fact that it is only with a single tank.

If they did it with two tanks, I would have no issues.

Cheers,
Jeff

CaveBuddy95

10-15-2009, 09:06 AM

I don't know if you are a PADI instructor but they have a recreational section and a tec one.
This new course targets the rec diver as well as the tec one.
You can't, as you say, taskload a rec diver too much. Hence the single cylinder* sm course. For the DSAT candidates they have the normal sm configuration.
Why? Whats the point? I even heard, 'the right TOOL for right dive'. Since when we need tools to go divin and have fun?? Why does it have to be oriented tec? Ok, its a tec forum but that does not say that rec divers can't try the so famous sm config.! You guys should be proud and looking out for the rec diver that tries it out.

*(cylinder is actually better than 'tank') ;-)

icestac

10-15-2009, 09:46 AM

I don't know if you are a PADI instructor but they have a recreational section and a tec one. This new course targets the rec diver as well as the tec one.

I am not, but I did realize they had two sections. I understood this thread to reference the recreational side.

You can't, as you say, taskload a rec diver too much. Hence the single cylinder* sm course. For the DSAT candidates they have the normal sm configuration.
Why? Whats the point? I even heard, 'the right TOOL for right dive'. Since when we need tools to go divin and have fun?? Why does it have to be oriented tec? Ok, its a tec forum but that does not say that rec divers can't try the so famous sm config.! You guys should be proud and looking out for the rec diver that tries it out.

I am all for a rec diver trying sidemount if they are doing two CYLINDERS. I think it makes a lot of sense and it does not need to taskload the diver any more than photography. I just don't see a single CYLINDER :) on the side more effective than one on the back.

*(cylinder is actually better than 'tank') ;-)

I disagree ;)

http://www.dicts.info/img/ud/tank2.jpghttp://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31vZ6aQKurL._SL500_SS90_.jpg

Swede

10-15-2009, 09:46 AM

...Again, the problem is not with levels or teaching it in general -- it is solely with the fact that it is only with a single tank.

If they did it with two tanks, I would have no issues.

Cheers,
Jeff

So the problem is that they teach it with one AND two tanks... hmmm... yes that is a problem... a BIG problem... how can an organisation teach someone to have an option between tank-on-the-back or tank-on-the-side... what if anyone would teach to have the tank on the front... OMG! in what direction is the world of diving heading... it's down hill from here... what if anyone would dive RB on a 50 fsw dive! that would be horrible!

(I'm sarcastic... no offence...)

try to relax and have fun... tank on the back, side, hand, head, foot or what ever... if anyone would cone to me and say that he dive with the tank between the legs 'cause some reason I would say "Good on you, hope you like it and feel safe".

is it to much taskload for a rec diver to check two PG... maybe for some, not for others. if that would be too much taskload, then RB would be killing ppl all over the world all the time...

icestac

10-15-2009, 09:57 AM

try to relax and have fun... tank on the back, side, hand, head, foot or what ever... if anyone would cone to me and say that he dive with the tank between the legs 'cause some reason I would say "Good on you, hope you like it and feel safe".

I am sorry, but there is NOTHING fun or relaxing about being lopsided in the water! And how could you even consider a CYLINDER on the foot?!? Where would the fin go? :rollguy

Seriously though, isn't there any merit to the standarization of gear for the recreational crowd? If looking at two PG is going to taskload someone, how about the hose routing with one cylinder? Or the weight difference? I know these can all be overcome, but WHY? What are they trying to solve?

With TEC sidemount, we reduce the weight we have to carry on our backs by allowing us to gear up in the water. We increase redunancy and control (debatable, but I happen to find it easier to handle issues in sidemount vs backmount -- probably a topic for another thread). I don't have a problem with an individual choosing to dive a single cylinder sidemount, but I do have an issue with an agency promoting it since it does not serve any purpose for the community at large. At BEST, it is another card that a customer can have and the shop can charge for -- and this may be the SOLE reason they are pursuing it.

Cheers,
Jeff

Slüdge

10-15-2009, 10:13 AM

I'm guessing that instead of a patch for your jacket you get a T-shirt that says, "Look at me! I'm a technical diver! Look at me!"

icestac

10-15-2009, 10:31 AM

I'm guessing that instead of a patch for your jacket you get a T-shirt that says, "Look at me! I'm a technical diver! Look at me!"

The t-shirt is still in the design phase. Until then, they are providing a golden pedestal engraved with the same phrase.

Don't believe me? I double checked it on snopes!

Jay

10-15-2009, 11:08 AM

I'm guessing that instead of a patch for your jacket you get a T-shirt that says, "Look at me! I'm a technical diver! Look at me!"

No, you can still get the patch also. :)

phillip1

10-15-2009, 02:41 PM

I think you can have a recreational SM course, in fact that would be really cool, but teach it with 2 tanks, as for task loading I do not think that it is very hard to monitor 2 air sources at all and a rec diver would probably find it easier than learning to use the "wheel".

I dive SM in the ocean all the time and it is so much easier in every way than BM (doubles I am talking about), and yeah..more fun too.

As for looking "tech" I am told by my rec diver friends that doubles are more complicated and heavy looking than SM and are considered to be used by divers who are all black belts, and that SM just looks weird and stupid as your back is exposed and vulnerable.
I have also heard that rec divers are very impressed with "tech" looking divers who have two computers, jet fins and big wetsuit side pockets, might want to consider that too to go with the "tshirt"

Jay

10-15-2009, 02:58 PM

I have not seen any information regarding a "one tank" recreational SM class.
They do have the 2 tank class in Tec though.
Does anyone have a link to the 1 tank class?

icestac

10-15-2009, 03:05 PM

I have not seen any information regarding a "one tank" recreational SM class.
They do have the 2 tank class in Tec though.
Does anyone have a link to the 1 tank class?

http://www.sidemountscubadiving.com/

Although this thread is #5 in Google for a search for "PADI Sidemount". So this thread must be true ;)

By the way, the correct term is CYLINDER not TANK.... DUH! :smt081

EEL

10-15-2009, 03:05 PM

I have not seen any information regarding a "one tank" recreational SM class.
They do have the 2 tank class in Tec though.
Does anyone have a link to the 1 tank class?

http://www.sidemountscubadiving.com/SidemountCourses/SidemountDiverSinglecylinder/tabid/61/Default.aspx

Man Jeff is fast.............................................

icestac

10-15-2009, 03:06 PM

I'm guessing that instead of a patch for your jacket you get a T-shirt that says, "Look at me! I'm a technical diver! Look at me!"

Look what the instructor gets:
http://www.sidemountscubadiving.com/Portals/0/Images/Single%20Cylinder%20Certificate.jpg

If that is not cool, what is?

10-15-2009, 03:06 PM

Its not the same with backmount. Sidemount is more task loading, plus it has two cylinders not one as in normal back mounts cavern diving. Cavern in doubles is useless expect you are enrolled in a complete full cave course and PADI not having one as far as I know. If the organization that you belong should you give you this option its OK, otherwise don't need to be waived? I asked if they follow the NSS-CDS curriculum, not if they use the CDS manual.

Oh, please! Let's not go that way again. 3-4 reg switches is more task loading?!? I would prefer to teach my students in the configuration they will continue with in future overhead courses. It makes the future courses that much easier to complete. And while it's true that PADI doesn't currently have a cave course, it appears this may not always be true. Also, I believe I answered your CDS question...they have their own standards and curriculum, just not their own manual.

I am sorry, but there is NOTHING fun or relaxing about being lopsided in the water!

Single tank to the side (http://www.chipoladivers.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=173&Itemid=153)

This was my first time doing this. The tank wasn't exactly sidemounted, but it was to the side and guess what? I never felt lopsided! This was probably one of the most fun and relaxing dives I've done in a long time. Oh, and notice, no wing either...

icestac

10-15-2009, 03:12 PM

Single tank to the side (http://www.chipoladivers.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=173&Itemid=153)

This was my first time doing this. The tank wasn't exactly sidemounted, but it was to the side and guess what? I never felt lopsided! This was probably one of the most fun and relaxing dives I've done in a long time. Oh, and notice, no wing either...

Which video?

I still say one AL80 is monkey diving :)

REAL sidemounters use REAL tanks (OK I know this will catch a lot of crap -- it is like poking a stick in a dog cage :smt036 )

CaveBuddy95

10-15-2009, 03:26 PM

http://www.sidemountscubadiving.com/

Although this thread is #5 in Google for a search for "PADI Sidemount". So this thread must be true ;)

By the way, the correct term is CYLINDER not TANK.... DUH! :smt081
Excellent!! Peace man! Tank no good! ( I liked the pic)
BTW I know Steve Martin, a good friend of mine, he is CD for PADI and did sm training here in Mexico with Steve Bogaerts. Boy, he got his eyes opened big time after that course. The sm approach needs more promotion as it really makes good awarness of position in water column and help to minimise the amount of weight divers tend to carry with them. So put it with just one tank and the Razor harness, you feel like you are not wearing anything!

Oh, please! Let's not go that way again. 3-4 reg switches is more task loading?!? I would prefer to teach my students in the configuration they will continue with in future overhead courses. It makes the future courses that much easier to complete. And while it's true that PADI doesn't currently have a cave course, it appears this may not always be true. Also, I believe I answered your CDS question...they have their own standards and curriculum, just not their own manual.

Single tank to the side (http://www.chipoladivers.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=173&Itemid=153)

This was my first time doing this. The tank wasn't exactly sidemounted, but it was to the side and guess what? I never felt lopsided! This was probably one of the most fun and relaxing dives I've done in a long time. Oh, and notice, no wing either...

Not all student who would take the One Cylinder sm course want to go OH environement.
And as for PADI not teaching Cave, well, I just started a thread about it, check it out!
But you are right on, if you try it, you can't say you are lopsided...only if you try it!

:arrowgreen

CaveBuddy95

10-15-2009, 03:31 PM

By the way, here is a SM rig used to this day in UK sumps!!!

argyris

10-15-2009, 03:49 PM

Oh, please! Let's not go that way again. 3-4 reg switches is more task loading?!? I would prefer to teach my students in the configuration they will continue with in future overhead courses. It makes the future courses that much easier to complete. And while it's true that PADI doesn't currently have a cave course, it appears this may not always be true. Also, I believe I answered your CDS question...they have their own standards and curriculum, just not their own manual.

Simple Incoherence!!!

I hope the personal preference of the instructor is according to the standards and procedures of the organization in the respected level. And PADI cavern is a recreational course, so it is task loading.

RN: You should not take it personally I am not targeting you. Thats why from now on I will refer to the third person. I am challenge the method not the person.

Sincerely
Argyris

PS: Remember anyone an old article of J. Jablonsky: "The end of technical diving" or something like that?

phillip1

10-15-2009, 06:29 PM

SM task loading..lol I find it much less confusing to monitor two air sources than the valves on a manifolded doubles setup, the task loading issue I think is totaly nil.
Anyone who finds that it is too complicated to monitor two air sources and swap regs from time to time and who really finds that this truly is task loading should maybe take up a less "complicated" pass time.

I am not saying that this would be appropriate for an entry level OW diver but I think you could explain to pretty much any advanced OW diver how to monitor two air sources and swap regs now and then, it is very very simple, even more so if you do not need to be using gas management like the rules of thirds etc...

Having said that, I think that the PADI single tank sidemount course sounds a bit like a ripoff, single tank SM should be a part of and a skill of a regular SM with two tanks class.

It sounds to me like PADI is using the rec diver "task loading" excuse as a means to have people pay twice for what should really be one class.

I too have on occasion dove SM with one tank in OW and unlike what many people may think you are NOT off balance at all, in fact you are way more comfortable than if you had a BM tank and a BC.

10-16-2009, 12:28 AM

Swede

10-16-2009, 02:52 AM

sskasser

10-16-2009, 07:15 AM

icestac, the 2nd to last video. I meant to point that out. ;)

I've taught a few sidemounters and backmounters and all of the sidemounters had an easier time with the reg switches than the backmounters had with the valve drills.

I agree that PADI's cavern course is more recreational, but why should it be? And no, I'm not a PADI die hard. I'm a PADI instructor, but I'm also a CDS, IANTD, and PSAI instructor.

Oh GEEZ, yes! I'll take reg swapping over valve drills any day! If I were meant to be able to turn a knob at the back of my head, I'd have an extra arm back there! Of course, then I could do the princess wave and still keep both hands on the wheel...but I digress...TGIF!

phillip1

10-16-2009, 09:15 AM

I just read though the PADI outline for the Open Water Side Mount Course and it say nothing about single cylinder SM… from the beginning the student will dive with two cylinders. The single cylinder SM course are something that one instructor teach. But like Philip 1 posted I think that 1 cylinder diving is fun and should be a skill that you could put in the course… it become like freediving but you can stay down for a bit longer…

I agree with you, as long as it's safe, dive however you like or whatever you like, and if it is considered ridiculous, unconventional, stupid, whatever as long as it's fun and safe who cares?.
Monkey diving is fun!!!

OneBrightGator

10-16-2009, 11:54 AM

Good to see the ol' PADI hatred is still alive and well...

phillip1

10-16-2009, 12:15 PM

I don't hate PADI, and I think it's cool they are offering a SM course for OW.
I always get sh!t when I dive SM in the ocean (all the time that is), but it is so much more comfortable than a BM tank, and infinitely more comfortable than a set of doubles.

I find it is a pleasure to monitor two air sources, and a chore to do doubles valve drills.lol...:rollguy

Neptuno

10-17-2009, 09:08 AM

I got to this late, but phil, looks like you never dove out of a boat full of padi divers :) if you don't know how to open a valve, or what to do with your reg goes out of your mouth, or you can't control one single tank pressure, do you think you can use and monitor 2 SM tanks?? :~
I would like to see that lol

by the way, I tried the one-mount already before padi diving las dos hermanas here with my backplate, it was fun, everybody should try it lol

phillip1

10-17-2009, 09:22 AM

Oh yeah I forgot about that, I think it works OK with one tank.

phillip1

10-17-2009, 10:33 AM

by the way, I tried the one-mount already before padi diving las dos hermanas here with my backplate, it was fun, everybody should try it lol

I don't think that technique is called one mount I think it's called "half mount":diver

Scott

10-17-2009, 11:44 AM

phillip1

10-17-2009, 12:05 PM

not to get off the subject, but when I am in the pool messing around, i have a 3' piece of webbing with D rings on the ends that i attach a stage bottle to. the bottle hangs in front of me and the stap goes across my back, from hip to opposite shoulder.
pretty comfy, but i do get some strange looks.

Post a pic. Sounds good, we do a lot of "power snorkeling" and hang a 19 around the neck like a St Bernard keg of rhum, but your way sounds better.

Scott

10-17-2009, 12:21 PM

Post a pic. Sounds good, we do a lot of "power snorkeling" and hang a 19 around the neck like a St Bernard keg of rhum, but your way sounds better.

I will take one next time I am in the pool.

Scott

BillGraham

10-21-2009, 02:26 PM

As my friend said the other day when we were gearing up to dive, "There are only sidemount divers and future sidemount divers" :)

DeepIsBliss

06-27-2011, 09:04 AM

Ok, I figured out the only valid reason for this configuration is for Monkey diving. :diver PADI is just being plain stupid for trying to call it side mounting.

If you are doing cave dives and recreational open water dives ( like diving panama city fl and marianna fl or in the Yucatan ). Slinging one tank on an open water Rec boat trip is easy. You don't have to sling two tanks up a dive ladder or take two sets of gear.

DeepIsBliss

06-27-2011, 09:16 AM

I was certified by Jeff Loflin as a PADI OW Sidemount instructor 3 years ago. It is immensely helpful to spend a few dives in the basin simply learning the new configuration before tackling cavern skills. I get a lot of requests for the class from diver's just starting cave or tec classes. Imagine if your cavern students already knew how to set up their gear and had good trim and buoyancy. How easy it is to just run line drills, share air, lights out, etc. You get to really enjoy the cavern and fine tune kicks/trim. Divers are well prepared for cave or tec classes after these two courses. Jeff is now traveling the world ( Austrailia most recently) teaching open water side mount and making specialty instructors. Who knew? Accolades to Ed Sorensen for getting Jeff into side mount in the first place. Hopefully Ed will be producing a "how to" DVD in the future. Jill's book, Jeff's class and Ed's DVD would be an amazing course.