Wakulla Divers

[wingman]

This will be my last poll for a while...thanks for your help.

We are finishing up our paper on Diving Demand for Wakulla State Park. Suppose that Wakulla State Park was open to recreational diving; this would include Sally Ward and the Wakulla Cavern and Cave. The requirements and fee to dive would be appropriate certification, an annual individual or family state park pass, and a $25 dollar fee per dive. These dives would NOT be guided and all systems would be available for technical training by qualified instructors.

Please provide if you can, your estimate of how may divers would take advantage of this opportunity on an annual basis. Note I am not asking for a number of dives but how many individual divers would dive at the park over the course of a year.

Other estimates are being generated from other sources but I would like to compare those with this consensus estimate. Thanks again. Bill Huth

[aainslie]

I am SO in.

...as long as there aren't a long list of stupid restrictions. Scooters. Teams. All the usual nonsense.

...No the hell with it. Even with restrictions, I'd be in. Although my demand (i.e. how many times they extracted $25 from my wallet) would be strongly influenced by the extent of thsoe rules.

[atedeschi]

Is it $25 dollars a dive or per day. Also why the additional fee for a statepark?

[aainslie]

Wow. I can't believe that right tail.

If it's right, the state parks could be walking away from over $100k in revenues. Not to mention making 1000+ tax payers a lot happier with the use of their taxes.

[SuPrBuGmAn]

I'm guessing less than 200 divers, but alot of those would likely be regular visitors.

Some people don't like driving and some people(me) aren't qualified to dive there, likely keeping the numbers slack.




I'd guess it would be similar to Eagles Nest in number of divers... except not including, OW, Cavern, Intro, Apprentice, and divers without Trimix certs.

[LiteHedded]

It's not clear long enough for >200 is it?

[wingman]

Is it $25 dollars a dive or per day. Also why the additional fee for a statepark?
$25 a dive.

[atedeschi]

$25 a dive.

Why? What is the $25 going to that a entrance fee or park pass is not doing? Why are they different from other state parks that allow diving?

[wingman]

Why? What is the $25 going to that a entrance fee or park pass is not doing? Why are they different from other state parks that allow diving?

Well for example, once you enter the park at Florida Caverns in Mariana you must pay an additional fee if you wish to enter the dry cave there, at wakulla if you want to take the glass bottom boat ride that is a fee as well. If you don't want to do the dive, you don't have to pay the fee.

[atedeschi]

Yeah I was just curious, and wondering why they get to charge more. Hope the other stateparks will not start doing that.

[divgirlsue]

Hey Bill,

I'm not sure how many would come. I'd guess small numbers of regulars. As Andrew said, I'm in.

Sue

[SuPrBuGmAn]

It's not clear long enough for >200 is it?

Probably not clear enough to appreciate it size, atleast on most years...

[jj1987]

Yeah I was just curious, and wondering why they get to charge more. Hope the other stateparks will not start doing that.
I believe that Madison, Peacock, and Manatee all currently list diving as more expensive ($15) on their websites. They do however, honor the state park pass, but some state parks don't, like John Pennycamp Coral Reef State Park (AWESOME park!).


I voted < 200, and realistically I can't imagine seeing more than 100 people there, considering the cost of helium. Do sites like EN and/or Indian Springs see even 200 people a year (excluding the AOW classes offered at EN :smt081)?

[LiteHedded]

I believe that Madison, Peacock, and Manatee all currently list diving as more expensive ($15) on their websites. They do however, honor the state park pass, but some state parks don't, like John Pennycamp Coral Reef State Park (AWESOME park!).


I voted < 200, and realistically I can't imagine seeing more than 100 people there, considering the cost of helium. Do sites like EN and/or Indian Springs see even 200 people a year (excluding the AOW classes offered at EN :smt081)?

LOL

i could see it being more if they offered gator rasslin' in addition to diving.
if I could hop in the sally ward basin with just a knife, a loin cloth and a bad attitude I'd be all over it

[chimie007]

Well for example, once you enter the park at Florida Caverns in Mariana you must pay an additional fee if you wish to enter the dry cave there, at wakulla if you want to take the glass bottom boat ride that is a fee as well. If you don't want to do the dive, you don't have to pay the fee.

Ya but Bill, the boat ride and the dry cavern visit both have added cost to the states since they are guided visits. It is understandable (to a point) to pay more for these to cover the cost of the employees providing the visit, boat cost, etc.

Diving Wakulla would be like Peacock, Jug, Madison, Lafayette, etc. There is no added cost to the state. Just checking that folks have the proper documents as done in other state parks.

What makes the cost of diving at Wakulla higher for the state ?

[wingman]

It's not clear long enough for >200 is it?

Actually they are experiencing more dark water days in recent times. The glass bottom boats hardly run anymore. It has been suggested that it (wakulla) is divable 60% of the time, do not know about dark water intrusion in sally ward.

[LiteHedded]

Actually they are experiencing more dark water days in recent times. The glass bottom boats hardly run anymore. It has been suggested that it (wakulla) is divable 60% of the time, do not know about dark water intrusion in sally ward.

i was thinking the same thing. I know they're hydrological connected but I don't know if when wakulla is dark if sally ward is dark or vice versa. indian is also connected by dye trace but seems to be clear all the time...
one of the wakulla county boys would probably have a better idea of how this works

[netmage]

IF, the $25 was used solely for improvements and maintainence of facilities conducive to diving, I could see it justified...

A glass bottom boat ride, requires the park to provide both a captain/guide and the boat... The same with diving at Pennekamp... its operated as a concession...

It's my understanding (which may be incorrect), the facilities and improvements at say Peacock, are a result of the community; Donations to the CSO, NSSCDS, NACD, volunteer work days, etc...

Thus, any $$$$ to simply walk up to the edge and jump in, sure appears like a money grab....

Picnic tables, bathrooms and parking should be covered as if I was just walking around...

[wingman]

Ya but Bill, the boat ride and the dry cavern visit both have added cost to the states since they are guided visits. It is understandable (to a point) to pay more for these to cover the cost of the employees providing the visit, boat cost, etc.

Diving Wakulla would be like Peacock, Jug, Madison, Lafayette, etc. There is no added cost to the state. Just checking that folks have the proper documents as done in other state parks.

What makes the cost of diving at Wakulla higher for the state ?

Price is an allocation mechanism...it is a way of managing a resource, the $25 is simply a placeholder here suggesting that it is not "free." For our purposes here we are just interested in the scope of the potential market. One tech instructor told me that he would have more than a hundred students a year diving there. Hard to find instances in which there are no costs associated with an activity. There's no such thing as a free lunch is difficult to refute when you take an opportunity cost perspective.

[fire diver]

Could see a lot more "customers" if the fee was an entrance fee, rather than a "per dive" fee. I wouldn't have a problem with paying to dive a site, but not if I have to pay someone for everytime I climb back in the water each day.

[wingman]

IF, the $25 was used solely for improvements and maintainence of facilities conducive to diving, I could see it justified...

A glass bottom boat ride, requires the park to provide both a captain/guide and the boat... The same with diving at Pennekamp... its operated as a concession...

It's my understanding (which may be incorrect), the facilities and improvements at say Peacock, are a result of the community; Donations to the CSO, NSSCDS, NACD, volunteer work days, etc...

Thus, any $$$$ to simply walk up to the edge and jump in, sure appears like a money grab....

Picnic tables, bathrooms and parking should be covered as if I was just walking around...

So you will pay $400+ to do the dive and begrudge the park $20? Well I think if you look at state and national parks across the country they try to cover operating costs anyway they can as their tax dollar budgets don't seem to get it all covered...why should you pay $15 - $20 to tent camp, why is the main hotel at yosemite np over $400 a night? Why is the bottle of wine at the grand canyon north rim lodge $40 when i can get the same bottle at publics for $15 ...

[netmage]

So you will pay $400+ to do the dive and begrudge the park $20? Well I think if you look at state and national parks across the country they try to cover operating costs anyway they can as their tax dollar budgets don't seem to get it all covered...why should you pay $15 - $20 to tent camp, why is the main hotel at yosemite np over $400 a night? Why is the bottle of wine at the grand canyon north rim lodge $40 when i can get the same bottle at publics for $15 ...

Cuz as one famous dive professional recently taught us all, everyone has their hand out for their 'ends'...

Not sure where you got the $400 from.... What I'm for, is placing the financial burden of my activity on my back... Not subsidizing someone else's...

[SuPrBuGmAn]

Don't have a Trimix card, but once I do, I'd dive Wakulla and Sally Ward if it were open.

Hell, I'd like to dive Sally Ward to the balcony on nitrox.

[mfascuba]

After paying for the helium I'll pay another $25 to dive there. Per dive or per day, same for me as I'll only do one "deep" or "long" dive a day anyway. Any dive with helium or a deco longer than about 20 minutes (nitrox depths) will be it for the day. I don't believe in pushing myself that hard, I do this for fun.

But I'm in. Will solo be allowed?

Mark

[RN]

200-400, only because I think a lot of instructors would take advantage of it and use it for training. I'd head there a few times a year outside of training, too.