DR Underwater Cave Discoveries Article

[sskasser]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/20090818/sc_livescience/slothandprimatefossilsfoundinunderwatercave

[Danseur]

..look like appropriate gear for cave diving to anyone?

Single tank, no H valve, standard open water hose config, clearly poor silt technique (is she standing in this photo?), um ...light? backup light?

Very cool article...um find, but scared silly at their diver.

At least I don't see a snorkel :diver

[tflaris]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/20090818/sc_livescience/slothandprimatefossilsfoundinunderwatercave

Nice article thanks for posting. Did not see the pictures at first. This is a little scary.

[DaveP]

The Indiana Univ divers do not have cave training and do not use "cave gear". They say they stay in the cavern zone..... The entrance to Padre Nuestro is pretty small.....
They are making access to the caves harder for those of us that dive there.

[Danseur]

http://www.indiana.edu/~clacs/people/details.php?username=cbeeker

I've been considering what to say, how to deliver it, and what to suggest. My sister and many other people close to me are Alumni, so I am entertaining how to best use that to influence some reconsideration as to how they are approaching this "research".

Somebody else want to have it, please use the link above!

The people IN DR may have the most sway..., but if you'd prefer, let me know what you want in the letter!

[DRSharky]

These caves are behind my backyard, well 10 minutes away. It would be too sad if they closed it for scuba diving, I used to go there for my Sunday fun dives

[phillip1]

I have seen dive schools in the area bring OW clients on penetration of over 300mtrs in El Chicho, this is of course is with no cave training of any sort and with OW dive gear, no line to open water etc....
Every single safety rule is totally disregarded by dive schools in every one of theses "guided" dives.
Once you get to the end of the mainline about 300mtrs in there is a big dry cave and there is a jump to the right with goes into a major restriction (as in there is absolutely no way to be side by side) this leads to a series of tunnels and goes in for another 300-400mtrs more or less.
Anyway I saw a group of 4 OW divers coming out of that restriction lead by a "guide"!!!
I spoke to one of the clients latter that day and he really had no idea that was he was doing was suicidal.
This is insane and it is happening in other DR caves, there is only 1 warning sign at the moment in El Dudu on the north coast and from experience this sign alone has helped save lives as no one without training goes beyond that point, the sign was a bit far in and after a restriction so we moved it further out and it is in an even safer place within the cavern zone.
The problem here (DR) is that I have never heard of any OW divers going beyond the cavern zone on dives by themselves it is to my knowledge always on "guided" dives lead by OW instructors who have no cave training at all, if they did they would NOT do this.
The Bayahibe area cave El Chico that is used for the "guided" dives is kind of like the gran cenote, a really nice large and inviting looking decorated white cave with very little to no silt, so instuctors think it's safe to dive and take unsuspecting customers waaaaay past the cavern zone on a regular basis (not sure now as the caves have restricted access)
I have seen OW divers way back in Cueva Taina too, again way past the cavern zone, no line to open water and this cave does silt out and it has a very pronounced hallocline too, I saw a "guided" dive with 4 clients and one instructor coming back from about 250 ft on the mainline (which starts way way past the cavern zone) one light each, you name it they did it.
I have tried to motivate people here to put warning signs in all the caves but it is really an uphill battle here and no one seems to care.
It is only a matter of time before someone dies in the DR and the tragic thing is it will be an unsuspecting OW diver who thought it was safe to go on a guided cave dive and they thought "guide" "knew" what he was doing.

On another note, from what I have heard the caves were not closed due to the archeological research going on but because of vandalism, people would go in and steal electrical cables, throw beer bottles and trash everywhere etc..

[skip]

You may want to contact the American Association for Underwater Science. They have protocols for science diving and have some pull with Universities doing research. They may be able to stop the diving altogether or at least pull in the reins a bit.

-skip

[DRSharky]

phillip1 I agree with you totally.
When I came to this coast and saw what you described, I couldn't believe my eyes. But unfortunatelly some dive shops care more about money then about safety. I know few certified cave divers in this country, instructors too. But majority of the divers here have no clue how dangerous it is to go to a cave without proper training and the equipment.
I dove at Dudu lake on the north coast too, and once I bumped into some divers in the cave. Actually they scared me a bit. Group of 4 divers, without a guide and WITOUTH a light!!! I don't even know how they got the tanks, because I haven't seen a dive shop that would rent tanks, like it's common in US and Canada.
I hope you are wrong about somebody dieing here.
I haven't heard about the vandalism, but it's possible. But I talked to the guard who was by the gate and he told me that was closed due to the research. That was in July, I haven't been there since, so I don't know if it's reopened yet.

[DaveP]

Vladi,

There are places to rent tanks on the island if your cave certified... why would a shop not rent tanks if someone has the correct training and experience.

Why does your shop not rent tanks to cave certified divers?

Dave

[phillip1]

From the info I got, the restricted access it is due to vandalism and has nothing to do with diving.
I don't think the research should be stopped and it is not a new thing either, the research has been going on for a long time since 94 I think and there was never any access problems until now.
In a cave that I will leave unnamed thieves stole the water pump, they also steal electrical cable and it had apparently got so bad that the park authorities decided to act and try and control the situation a bit better.
As for renting tanks, from my experience the various shops don't really like to rent tanks to people they don't know as opposed to it being a certification issue.

[DRSharky]

In a cave that I will leave unnamed thieves stole the water pump, they also steal electrical cable and it had apparently got so bad that the park authorities decided to act and try and control the situation a bit better.
I've heard about this long time ago, maybe a year or so. That was a cave that was closed to public and was used by the resorts as a water source. So it's either an old case and they decided to do something about it now, or it happened again recently (which I wouldn't be surprised).


Vladi,

There are places to rent tanks on the island if your cave certified... why would a shop not rent tanks if someone has the correct training and experience.
Why does your shop not rent tanks to cave certified divers?
Dave

I lived 2 years on the north coast and almost 2 years now on the south, so maybe you have more experience with renting tanks in DR then me. I haven't seen any dive shop on the north or here to do it - well I wasn't looking for one, but that's what all the shops I worked with told me.
I don't run a typical dive shop, only a dive boat. My shop is for meeting with clients or a classroom for courses. I don't rent the equipment, only to my clients that book diving with me online. I specialize in private diving, most of the clients bring their own equipment, I just supply them with weights and air.

Reason I don't rent the equipment - certification doesn't mean that the diver is a good diver. My friend is an instructor, but as a diver he is worse then some of my clients that are "only" OW divers. Also don't forget, most of the divers that come to the area like this are diving only when going on a vacation and they need a guide. Some of them are "trained" so well, that they cannot even set up the equipment by themselves. And they are certified too. Would you rent a tank to these people? I have to dive with people to evaluate their skills.
And in case of an accident while a diver uses my equipment - I wouldn't be able to sleep at night.

[DaveP]

There is a closed sign at Padre Nuestro cave.

"The cave where they were discovered, which is part of an aquifer and cave system that supplies water to nearby resorts, has been closed for research purposes."

http://newsinfo.iu.edu/news/page/normal/11644.html%20Indiana%20university%20in%20the%20cav es%20around%20bayahibe