NACD Survey Workshop October 3-4, 2009 - UPDATE class is full

[NACD]

The NACD will be having a two day survey workshop October 3-4, 2009.

On Saturday, October 3 meet with NACD Survey and Exploration Chairman Michael Poucher and receive training, tips, and tricks for surveying underwater caves. Then go into a "dry" cave (Bat Cave in Newberry, Florida) to practice your techniques above the water line. Make sure to bring boots and clothes that you can get dirty and wet to wear in the cave and a clean set of clothes to change into afterward. Lunch will be provided courtesy of the NACD.

On Sunday, October 4 meet up at Peacock Springs State Park with your dive gear and start practicing your new survey skills underwater. Then bring your data to the surface and produce a map.

NOTE: To participate in diving activities you must bring proof of appropriate certifications and conduct your dive at the level of those certifications. In addition you must have DAN insurance or equivalent, and sign liability and medical waivers.

Cost is $25 for NACD members and $35 for non-members. Register now, space is limited!

visit http://www.safecavediving.com for more info!

[SuPrBuGmAn]

Thanks for the heads up!

[DaveP]

Always something to learn...

Thanks,
Dave

[Bill Rotella]

Wow, what a great workshop, I"m going to sign up on pay day!

[bgillespie82]

Looking forward to this workshop!!!

[rotor60driver]

Can anybody recommend a place to stay to be "close" to the workshop on Saturday and Sunday?

Also just curious as to how many folks will be there.

[RN]

Shawn, book a bunk at Cathy's. $20/night. Shared bathrooms and community kitchen. Or is you want more privacy, Cindy's Motel for $50/night. Jen and I will be at the workshop.

[chimie007]

Sounds like there will be a bunch of us there. Wonder what the max attendance is ?

[JahJahwarrior]

I hope there are lots of people there and atleast a few of them know as little about survey as I do...

...I need to take a good look at someone's survey rig so I can copy it for the class... :D

[SuPrBuGmAn]

Shawn, I'll be out there as well, should be a good time.

I've stayed at Cathy's bunkhouse before as well, it works. I've also slept in my car at the boat launch along the Suwannee, the blue suspension bridge looks great at sunrise when you wake up.

[sskasser]

I'll see you guys out there! No clue where I'm staying (that's too much like planning ahead, lol). Mat's idea about the boat launch sounds pretty good...right in line with my budget! :smt081

[rotor60driver]

I hope there are lots of people there and atleast a few of them know as little about survey as I do...

...I need to take a good look at someone's survey rig so I can copy it for the class... :D

I'm with you on the knowing very little about survey, thus the reason for attending the workshop.

Looking forward to meeting some new folks and seeing some that I already know.

Thanks for the recommendations Rob and Mat. I'll contact Dive Outpost and also consider the camping in the truck idea.

So besides an oil filled compass and some wet notes for data what else should we be looking at bringing?

[chimie007]

So besides an oil filled compass and some wet notes for data what else should we be looking at bringing?

I'm bringing my dry caving stuff (well minus the vertical gear). Really looks like all we need is the compass/slate/wet notes for the in water part.

[skip]

I'll be bringing dry cave gear (helmet with lights, boots). And what little bit of cave survey gear I figure may be needed (large slate with compass and computer mounted on it - made it myself). Also, I am bringing the cave survey book, little yellow spiral thing, and my big book of cave survey.

Don't know where I'll stay for sure, but may camp at River R. Or one of Rennaker's trailers. They are close to the site right? I have no idea where the dry cave is, so may adjust my stay based on that (when I figure out where it is).

I know nothing.

-skip

[chimie007]

I'll be bringing dry cave gear (helmet with lights, boots). And what little bit of cave survey gear I figure may be needed (large slate with compass and computer mounted on it - made it myself). Also, I am bringing the cave survey book, little yellow spiral thing, and my big book of cave survey.

Don't know where I'll stay for sure, but may camp at River R. Or one of Rennaker's trailers. They are close to the site right? I have no idea where the dry cave is, so may adjust my stay based on that (when I figure out where it is).

I know nothing.

-skip

The cave is in Newberry about 13 miles south of High Springs. Looking at about 1h drive from DO/CE area.

Anyone has a good suggestion for a cheap compass that would be good enough ? I just took a look at my small hiking one and it doesn't have enough resolution. Webpage said 2 degree increments.

[RN]

Anyone know where we are supposed to meet on Saturday?

[sandy]

The cave is in Newberry about 13 miles south of High Springs. Looking at about 1h drive from DO/CE area.

Anyone has a good suggestion for a cheap compass that would be good enough ? I just took a look at my small hiking one and it doesn't have enough resolution. Webpage said 2 degree increments.


Raphael, see the link below. This may be the compass that is on Mike Poucher's website - www.cavesurvey.com . Seems like I read about using a Silva brand compass for UW cave survey somewhere. Hope to see you at the workshop.

http://www.tech4o.com/p-51-explorer-203.aspx

Also, the yellow spiral book by John Burge suggests a Silva Polaris 7 which may also be shown on Mike's website. REI has a Polaris 777 for about $13. I think the Explorer in the above link is $20. The difference may be a magnifier on the above.

[BobK]

I'll be there also. I don't have any "dry caving stuff" unless its the same as "wet caving stuff" :-)

I gather my SK7 compass isn't good enough for this ?

[Oceanus]

Local Hiking store has the Silva 117 for $11.95... I could discuss a group rate

[DaveP]

Raphael, I have been using a Silva compass that I believe came from WalMart. Some of the Silva compass's were larger and had things on them we would never use, so I bought the smaller one and mounted it on a slate with a bubble level. It works good and is marked every 2deg and very cheap. See ya there. Laid more line this past weekend :-)

Dave

[sandy]

mounted it on a slate with a bubble level.

Dave, can you tell us how you mounted the compass and level? Not sure whether to use an epoxy or stainless screws/nuts and bolts. Also, can you get the bubble levels at a hardware store? I have never seen any but have never looked for them either.

Thanks for your help.

[bgillespie82]

You can find a bulls eye level (bubble Level) at Ace Hardware

[Attchoum]

Is there any chance that someday that kind of stuff will be organise in mexico????

[DaveP]

Sandy,

I know a lot of people use SS hardware to secure the compass to the slate but then you have a bolt/nut sticking out the back side. I used a little crazy glue and one plastic ziptie as a back up. Just be careful not to get any glue on the center / rotating part of the compass! A slate half this size would probably work fine for most people but I have been able to fill this one up more than once. The large slate is a pain in real tight / SM style caves but in a big cave just clip it off and forget it when not in use.

I found my bullet level at Ace Hardware as well, I don't always look at it but its nice to have.

Hope the pic comes out and this helps.

Dave

[sandy]

B and Dave - Thanks.

[FW]

Be careful using "stainless" bolts. I have seen some cheap "stainless" hardware that was attracted to a magnet, and that stuff would effect the compass readings.

[FW]

Is there any chance that someday that kind of stuff will be organise in mexico????

Contact Mike Poucher, and ask. He might be down there on vacation sometime. There are a lot of good surveyors in MX, maybe one of them could do a similar class.

[Kelly Jessop]

Be careful using "stainless" bolts. I have seen some cheap "stainless" hardware that was attracted to a magnet, and that stuff would effect the compass readings.


Maybe that would explain why all the caves I survey are going north :-)

[Kelly Jessop]

Hope the pic comes out and this helps.

Dave


I use the same arrangement of compass and bubble level on a slate,but I don't like putting the info I am going get to log on the slate. I use Rite-in-the-Rain paper,make up a grid that I attach it to the slate. This will allow me to vary the information I collect based on the quality of the survey.

[Kelly Jessop]

You can find a bulls eye level (bubble Level) at Ace Hardware


RV stores are a great place,plus they have some great flourescent,glow in the dark ones.

[chimie007]

Raphael, I have been using a Silva compass that I believe came from WalMart. Some of the Silva compass's were larger and had things on them we would never use, so I bought the smaller one and mounted it on a slate with a bubble level. It works good and is marked every 2deg and very cheap. See ya there. Laid more line this past weekend :-)

Dave

I ordered a small Silva from ebay earlier this week. Plan on mounting it on a slate. Good idea on the bubble level.

[skip]

here's a real nice compass from REI. One-degree marks with a magnifier to read them!

-skip

[sandy]

Just bought a bulls eye level for the survey workshop from ACE. At 3.20 including tax, it may be the cheapest piece of cave dive gear I ever bought.

[JahJahwarrior]

I keep promising that I'll get the stuff this week, then never do...

I need a compass, slate, bubble level and the measuring tape contraption as well....sheesh. And since this is all home made stuff, it's real hard to just go get a list of required components...

[sandy]

I keep promising that I'll get the stuff this week, then never do...

I need a compass, slate, bubble level and the measuring tape contraption as well....sheesh. And since this is all home made stuff, it's real hard to just go get a list of required components...


I ordered a new Silva Polaris 177 compass on Ebay. It looks like some of the ones mentioned in various survey books and websites. For 11.99 including shipping, it was the cheapest price for this model I could find without driving an hour. Do a search on Ebay for it, and the first listing should be the one

Have not gotten a tape yet - the NACD site did not say we needed one. I am not sure if we will be doing compass and distance work or just compass work.

[sandy]

Just received the compass today. I sure hope the water magnifies the lines. Otherwise, I will need mask inserts or a much bigger compass.

[mpoucher]

Tapes: There will be some tapes available at the workshop, but bring your own if you can. Recommend a fiberglass 100' open reel ( not one of those square fully enclosed tapes - they jam with mud) marked in feet and tenths. You can get them at Lowes or Home Depot pretty inexpensively. Also a compass, two degree increments, rotating bezel and wet notes or a slate to write on.

[BobK]

Tapes: There will be some tapes available at the workshop, but bring your own if you can. Recommend a fiberglass 100' open reel ( not one of those square fully enclosed tapes - they jam with mud) marked in feet and tenths. You can get them at Lowes or Home Depot pretty inexpensively. Also a compass, two degree increments, rotating bezel and wet notes or a slate to write on.

Is it ok if we share ? Dave P has this stuff and said I could share it with him.

[Serota]

The Survey Workshop is full and no additional registrations will be accepted.

[amphipod06]

The Survey Workshop is full and no additional registrations will be accepted.

Craig,

Are there any plans of offering another workshop again this year?

Dive safe,

Celia

[mpoucher]

It will be offered again, but not sure of a date at this time. I usually do something at the Hart Springs event in January and/or the CDS wordkshop.

Mike Poucher
www.cavesurvey.com

[JahJahwarrior]

You can find a bulls eye level (bubble Level) at Ace Hardware

Where in Ace? I'm having a hard time getting all this stuff!

A tape was easy to find at Home Depot for $15. I luckily have a slate which I use for critter counts, I'll just use one side for survey and one side for critters... I bought a compass on eBay but I'm having to contact the seller directly to give him credit card info since Ididn't want to pay with paypal... And I found an Ace in Orlando, but couldn't find a bubble level that looked good. Some of the cheapest cave gear I've bought, but some of the hardest to track down!

After looking at what info there is on the web about Bat Cave, I'm really excited! Been dreaming about dry caving for a while now, but haven't had time to explore that at all. Can we take cameras in? Will cameras survive? :D I have an underwater housing for the camera but then it's big and bulky...don't want it to get in the way but if I can I'd love a chance to get some pictures.

[bgillespie82]

Where in Ace? I'm having a hard time getting all this stuff!

A tape was easy to find at Home Depot for $15. I luckily have a slate which I use for critter counts, I'll just use one side for survey and one side for critters... I bought a compass on eBay but I'm having to contact the seller directly to give him credit card info since Ididn't want to pay with paypal... And I found an Ace in Orlando, but couldn't find a bubble level that looked good. Some of the cheapest cave gear I've bought, but some of the hardest to track down!

After looking at what info there is on the web about Bat Cave, I'm really excited! Been dreaming about dry caving for a while now, but haven't had time to explore that at all. Can we take cameras in? Will cameras survive? :D I have an underwater housing for the camera but then it's big and bulky...don't want it to get in the way but if I can I'd love a chance to get some pictures.

Found these online, If you need me to I can pick up one for you at the ace here and when we meet for bat cave I will give it to you.

http://www.rvsupplywarehouse.com/product/detail.cfm/pid/2318

http://www.amazon.com/Kapro-240-01-Surface-Level/dp/B001N3K832/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1254089518&sr=1-2

http://www.amazon.com/Swanson-Tool-SL0002-Surface-Level/dp/B001OMGKU2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1254089518&sr=1-1

The ones at my local Ace are like these
http://www.amazon.com/Johnson-Level-Tool-4-Inch-Surface/dp/B00002NBKB/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1254089518&sr=1-4

[mpoucher]

We went in to Bat today to check conditions and its pretty dry right now. Unless we get torrential downpours for the next week, I expect it will still be dry next week. Cameraas are ok but you may want them in a protective case as you will be crawing around the cave.

[rotor60driver]

Is is a good idea/useful to carry a backpack or camelback on Saturday into Bat cave. I am not a dry caver and don't want to haul anything in that will not be useful. If it is okay how big or small should the pack be?

And a question for the attendees. Sadly my regular dive buddy wasn't able to make it and Peacock doesn't allow solo diving so if there are others out there going to the workshop alone I was wandering if we could look at buddying up?

[FW]

Is is a good idea/useful to carry a backpack or camelback on Saturday into Bat cave. I am not a dry caver and don't want to haul anything in that will not be useful. If it is okay how big or small should the pack be?

And a question for the attendees. Sadly my regular dive buddy wasn't able to make it and Peacock doesn't allow solo diving so if there are others out there going to the workshop alone I was wandering if we could look at buddying up?
A small pack, with extra lights, and a water bottle would be useful.

[sskasser]

Is is a good idea/useful to carry a backpack or camelback on Saturday into Bat cave. I am not a dry caver and don't want to haul anything in that will not be useful. If it is okay how big or small should the pack be?

And a question for the attendees. Sadly my regular dive buddy wasn't able to make it and Peacock doesn't allow solo diving so if there are others out there going to the workshop alone I was wandering if we could look at buddying up?

I think there are several of us attending solo. We won't have any problem forming up buddy teams. I look forward to seeing everyone!

[skip]

I found a bubble level at Northern Tool & Equipment. But it's useless if you ask me. I tried it out and there is no way to hold the slate steady enough to get the bubble level, it just bounces around uselessly. Also my slate is not level to start with and has to be off-level for the compass needle to rotate, making the bubble level more useless.

I'll bring the little thing with me if someone wants it.

-skip

[skip]

I thought I saw a post with directions to bat cave in newberry, but i can't find it now. I know it's in newberry, but exactly where? and what time again? I saw the meeting time/place for sunday (peacock), but not saturday.

thanks,
skip

[bgillespie82]

Date: October 3, 2009
Time: 9AM
Meeting Location: BP station at the corner of W Newberry Rd (SR 26) / US 27-41 (in the small town of Newberry, located apprx 13 miles from High Springs).



I thought I saw a post with directions to bat cave in newberry, but i can't find it now. I know it's in newberry, but exactly where? and what time again? I saw the meeting time/place for sunday (peacock), but not saturday.

thanks,
skip

[skip]

thanks.

skip

[chimie007]

thanks.

skip

Skip,

you should have gotten an email with forms to bring (including one to be faxed ahead).

Raphael

[sandy]

I saw the meeting time/place for sunday (peacock).

thanks,
skip

I have not seen the time for SUnday at PSSP. Is it also 9AM?

[bgillespie82]

Date: October 4, 2009
Time: 9AM
Meeting Location: Peacock Springs State Park


If you guys need the forms let me know your email and I will forward it to you.

[sandy]

Date: October 4, 2009
Time: 9AM
Meeting Location: Peacock Springs State Park


If you guys need the forms let me know your email and I will forward it to you.

Pm sent - Thanks Ben.

[skip]

oh yes, that's where I saw the info, in an email, not a post.

thanks,
skip

[DaveP]

Mike P. or others: Do we know what time the workshop will be finishing up on Sunday?

Thanks,
Dave

[RN]

I'd like to know about Saturday, as well. Just want to know if we might be done early enough to get a dive in somewhere Saturday evening.

[sandy]

I'd like to know about Saturday, as well. Just want to know if we might be done early enough to get a dive in somewhere Saturday evening.

I had the same question and received an email from Mike that we would be busy all day Saturday. I took that to mean PSSP was out but maybe a night dive at Ginnie was doable.

I did not ask about Sunday but was figuring all day at PSSP.

[SuPrBuGmAn]

I'm out, can't responsibly make the trip out there at the moment.

[FW]

I'm out, can't responsibly make the trip out there at the moment.
You should contact the NACD, in case someone wants your spot.

[sskasser]

For those using a thingee that requires an address to tell you how to get there, I found the BP at 167 S Main St, Newberry, FL.

[Slüdge]

For those using a thingee

I wish you computer people would quit using all that technical jargon. It just confuses us regular folk.

[sskasser]

I wish you computer people would quit using all that technical jargon. It just confuses us regular folk.

Sorry, Russell! You're right! Thingee = Doo-ma-hickey Thanks for keeping me straight ;)

[BobK]

For those using a thingee that requires an address to tell you how to get there, I found the BP at 167 S Main St, Newberry, FL.

I usually need an address to get anywhere. Sometimes I still don't get there :)

[bgillespie82]

I usually need an address to get anywhere. Sometimes I still don't get there :)


This is what it looks like.

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=167+S+Main+St,+Newberry,+FL.&ie=UTF8&gl=us&ei=AB_GSrArjJfwBraJuUc&hq=&hnear=167+S+Main+St,+Newberry,+Alachua,+Florida+32 669&ll=29.646715,-82.606188&spn=0.00111,0.002401&t=h&z=19&layer=c&cbll=29.6466,-82.606283&panoid=Bvv3_K_EcX2SJDO0Es5_Fg&cbp=12,176.44,,0,6.21

[BobK]

This is what it looks like.

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=167+S+Main+St,+Newberry,+FL.&ie=UTF8&gl=us&ei=AB_GSrArjJfwBraJuUc&hq=&hnear=167+S+Main+St,+Newberry,+Alachua,+Florida+32 669&ll=29.646715,-82.606188&spn=0.00111,0.002401&t=h&z=19&layer=c&cbll=29.6466,-82.606283&panoid=Bvv3_K_EcX2SJDO0Es5_Fg&cbp=12,176.44,,0,6.21

Cool ! I just drive north 'till I get to the Frito-Lay truck, and I'm there ! technology is great !!

[bgillespie82]

Cool ! I just drive north 'till I get to the Frito-Lay truck, and I'm there ! technology is great !!

Hope you made it, truck wasnt there this morn

[sandy]

I had the opportunity to attend the workshop this weekend and wanted to thank the NACD for offering it. At the risk of ommitting a name, thanks to Larry and Deb, Joel and Jackie, Andy, Bob, and especially Mike Poucher for their time this weekend. It was great seeing old friends and meeting some new ones.

Thanks to the NACD for offering these type workshops. Betweeen this one, Spring into Diving, and a water quality workshop, it seems like I have been to 3 in the past 12 to 15 months.

[chimie007]

I had the opportunity to attend the workshop this weekend and wanted to thank the NACD for offering it. At the risk of ommitting a name, thanks to Larry and Deb, Joel and Jackie, Andy, Bob, and especially Mike Poucher for their time this weekend. It was great seeing old friends and meeting some new ones.


I second that. It was a fun workshop... Thanks to all involved.

[rotor60driver]

Had a great time and met some really good folks. Somewhere in there I learned quite a bit also.

[BobK]

Hope you made it, truck wasnt there this morn

Yup, I made it. They couldn't hide the BP station :)

Great time, learned a lot, especially about pencils ;)

[DaveP]

Thanks guys!

[runawaylobster]

Totally Brilliant!!!!

I learned alot, thanks very much for the organizing and work put in.

had the best time I've had for a long time! Especially the part of crawling
around like a mud bunny waving a compass....in places where only
traveling gnomes are supposed to visit!!!

yes I see a new career on the horizon, finding somewhere to survey
where no gnome has gone before .. :)

LL

edit: PS: thanks to the survivor team for not really making me crawl through
all that water.....

[bgillespie82]

I Had a great time hanging out with known friends and meeting new ones!

I guess we all are expected to push some maps out now eh?

[JahJahwarrior]

I had a wonderful time! I'll try to put links up to all the photos I took soon. So good to meet so many new people and to get to dive with new people, and my goodness, surveying is difficult but addictive! I have a feeling that even doing dives at well known places, I'll try to do survey on the last few hundred feet on the way out just to get some practice in. I've found it's a new balancing act, juggling a compass and wetnotes, that'll take a few dives to get used to.

[sskasser]

I had a blast! Great seeing everyone, and thanks to everyone who made it happen! Jackie deserves a medal! Or at least a foot massage....Joel!

Who knew a 300' P dive into P1 could be so challenging and fun?! Thanks, Lesley, for being such a great dive buddy! And Raphie...about that reel-running...ummm....THANKS! :smt081

Jahjah...I look forward to the pics!

Dang, I learned a lot....my brain is FULL! Thanks Michael P. and Bob S.!