Peacock Cave Conservation poll

[Kelly Jessop]

Cave diving poll

[icestac]

Most of the time I go through, but there are quite a few times I go around and under too... too bad we can't split out vote :)

[TommyB]

I do the around and under unless taking someone that's never been b4.

[FW]

Most of the time I go through, but there are quite a few times I go around and under too... too bad we can't split out vote :)

The second choice would cover both.

[icestac]

The second choice would cover both.

You are wise beyond my years.

[Dsix36]

I have only been there once and I don't remember seeing a "window" or what I did.

I know that the only thing I touched during the dive was the branches going over olsen sink.

[Kelly Jessop]

I have only been there once and I don't remember seeing a "window" or what I did.

I know that the only thing I touched during the dive was the branches going over olsen sink.


10' before the 300' line arrow near Olsen is an oval shaped opening that the line goes through.

[Diverlee]

I have only been there once and I don't remember seeing a "window" or what I did.

I know that the only thing I touched during the dive was the branches going over olsen sink.
I will show you next time you go up!

[cavediver256]

Its been so long since I have been in the water, I don't recall.....:smt102 :-D

Truthfully, I have been through it, and under and around.

[gsulliva]

hmmm .... everytime I'm in that spot and see another team 90+% of the time they are pulling themselves through the window.

So either everyone is voting what they think the others want to hear or that 9% that I see go around are the only users of this forum.

By bet if the first. This is why surveys are silly, people always answer that they think is socially correct.

[Tegg]

hmmm .... everytime I'm in that spot and see another team 90+% of the time they are pulling themselves through the window.

So either everyone is voting what they think the others want to hear or that 9% that I see go around are the only users of this forum.

By bet if the first. This is why surveys are silly, people always answer that they think is socially correct.

or maybe a lot of the people on this forum who are voting don't really dive peacock that much....?? Thus you don't "see" them...

[Richard Atyeo]

That is my favorite area in peacock and i try to never touch anything

[deepdiverbob]

better question is about the placement of the line there..on the little outcropping, or all the way back in the crevice? I did my cave class with a wife/husband team, and they couldnt even agree on the placement of the line there.

[Gene Powell]

Kelly. This is a fantastic idea for a thread! Whether people answer honestly or not really doesn't matter. It will hopefully make people think. I just wish it could stay in the main forum where it can be easily seen. Hell, it should be mandatory before you can view threads! Thanks again.

[Kelly Jessop]

Kelly. This is a fantastic idea for a thread! Whether people answer honestly or not really doesn't matter. It will hopefully make people think. I just wish it could stay in the main forum where it can be easily seen. Hell, it should be mandatory before you can view threads! Thanks again.


My thoughts exactly. I was the first team to dive the cave after the flood inorder to do a fauna count and assess the cave for reopening of recreational cave diving. When I passed this area I saw the perimeter of this feature stained to match the other cave features,and a light deposit of silt on the rim. When I passed this feature last Saturday to do a fauna count,the first thing I noticed was how the tale-tell sign of pull and glides had returned. Does propulsion through this part of the cave require contact with the rock formations?

[Kelly Jessop]

i try to never touch anything

Me too. If I go through the Peanut tunnel and I accidently touch any rock with a finger or a fin,I am mad at myself.

[jj1987]

Kelly- is this something that you could discuss with the line committee? I know ideally all divers would not touch it, but that's just not going to happen, so what about moving the goldline to the bigger passage?

[Kelly Jessop]

Kelly- is this something that you could discuss with the line committee? I know ideally all divers would not touch it, but that's just not going to happen, so what about moving the goldline to the bigger passage?


How many lines do we have to move? What about the large rock near the jump to dark water tunnel,the rocks on either end of the crossover tunnel,the rock table at the bottom of the breakdown room etc.... Is the problem the rock and the line in its proximity,or just our awareness to cave conservation.

[cavediver256]

Me too. If I go through the Peanut tunnel and I accidently touch any rock with a finger or a fin,I am mad at myself.


Oh please !!! Anybody that has seen the "Mile Run" video knows better Kelly !!!! :rollguy Just kidding, but I could not help myself..

[Benthic]

In my opinion, whether or not people pull and glide through the window in question is not nearly as big an issue as the fin marks and hand prints all over the bottom.

Brian

[Gene Powell]

In my opinion, whether or not people pull and glide through the window in question is not nearly as big an issue as the fin marks and hand prints all over the bottom.

Brian

I find them equally offensive. I bet the fin marks are easier to repair though! I do agree with James that the line placement invites folks to go through the window. It doesn't justify grabbing and pulling, but with the number of inexperienced divers in this area the damage is predictable( same for the wishbone). FWIW I have pulled through there in the past just like the majority of divers who go through there. I'm grown up now and I know better.

[Slüdge]

???

Why does one need to pull and glide in Peacock at all?

There's this new invention everyone needs to look into: fins.

[Gene Powell]

???

Why does one need to pull and glide in Peacock at all?

There's this new invention everyone needs to look into: fins.

I agree. Do you think you could post some pictures of these fin things? I may try to make a set. Although, I have a friend who uses them, and he says it's hard to get anywhere because people keep yanking on them.:smt102

[sskasser]

I agree. Do you think you could post some pictures of these fin things? I may try to make a set. Although, I have a friend who uses them, and he says it's hard to get anywhere because people keep yanking on them.:smt102


ROFLMAO! :smt043

[FW]

I agree. Do you think you could post some pictures of these fin things? I may try to make a set. Although, I have a friend who uses them, and he says it's hard to get anywhere because people keep yanking on them.:smt102
Only in Telford :roll: (and occasionally JB) :-D

[Slüdge]

I never grabbed the fins at JB. I noticed it wasn't Shirley at the last moment!

[sskasser]

I never grabbed the fins at JB. I noticed it wasn't Shirley at the last moment!

Your protests to the contrary only make it more fun, Mr. Fin-yanker!:smt079

[outofayr]

I was taught that there is no such thing as "pull and glide"; i.e. if you can glide, you should swim. My cave instructor called it "pull and pull" and I still practice that.

I'm with Brian (benthic) - the marks on the bottom bother me even more, but why pull on anything in this system?

Brian

[DA Aquamaster]

I agree that having the line through the window encourages contact from divers who don't seem to understand what conservation means.

I feel the same way the similar line through a window routing in Orange Grove with the addition that in that particular location it also encourages divers to leave the line to by pass it.

[Kelly Jessop]

I agree that having the line through the window encourages contact from divers who don't seem to understand what conservation means.

.

This may be true perhaps,if so then there are some tunnels that need to have the line completely removed. I recall when the lips leading into the peanut tunnel couldn't be identified as a tunnel,and people would end up in the mistake. Now this feature is wallowed out,with limestone chips everywhere.

[jj1987]

This may be true perhaps,if so then there are some tunnels that need to have the line completely removed. I recall when the lips leading into the peanut tunnel couldn't be identified as a tunnel,and people would end up in the mistake. Now this feature is wallowed out,with limestone chips everywhere.
Look at the areas of Ginnie in the first 2000ft of the cave where line has been removed that only takes a single stage to get to, and compare that to the damage the first few 100ft past the Heinkle which requires 3 stages or a scooter. 1500ft further much harder to get to, and waaaaay more damage. Heck, even compare the damage to the far right of the lips (going in) vs where the line is, from what I've seen...wherever the line is, damage will follow.

[DA Aquamaster]

Look at the areas of Ginnie in the first 2000ft of the cave where line has been removed that only takes a single stage to get to, and compare that to the damage the first few 100ft past the Heinkle which requires 3 stages or a scooter. 1500ft further much harder to get to, and waaaaay more damage. Heck, even compare the damage to the far right of the lips (going in) vs where the line is, from what I've seen...wherever the line is, damage will follow.Your observation also makes a strong case that it is not new cave divers doing the damage but rather experienced cave divers who know better but apparently do not care.

I think we are pretty quick (too quick) to excuse damage in the first 1000-1500 feet or so in some systems as they are considered to be "sacrificial" training areas. But obviously a significant percentage of divers seem willing to extend that status to the entire system, not just areas where new divers train.

----

Looking at the poll results today, even if only 10% of divers do a pull and glide through the window (thanks for your honesty in admitting it, now please stop doing it) given the volume of traffic it adds up to a lot of cumulative damage as limestone is very soft and the deposits on it are even more fragile.

[DA Aquamaster]

This may be true perhaps,if so then there are some tunnels that need to have the line completely removed. I recall when the lips leading into the peanut tunnel couldn't be identified as a tunnel,and people would end up in the mistake. Now this feature is wallowed out,with limestone chips everywhere.I have heard the lips at Ginnie used to actually be a restriction.

The problem is not the line but rather a failure to promote and enculturate conservation ethics in a significant percentage of cave divers.

In low flow systems like Peacock, my goal is always to have zero contact with the cave and I don't take it lightly on the rare occassions where I end up being less than perfect and make any kind of contact. In systems where you need to pull, I try to do it with a minimum of damage and when posible use existing holds - that are usually obvious - to prevent the spread of damage.

Places like Cow Springs where the walls are still quite dark, I take care not to venture off the line into pristine areas as those little white chips that some moron made when they just had to go toodling some where off the line are very noticeable and detract from what is otherwise a very beautiful passage.

Some divers however have different goals. In some cases it may be a desire to use more damaging techniques to push the penetration to set a new personal record. I have very little tolerance for that given that the rest of us have to look at the damage that results.