View Full Version : sidemount valves question...
IowaCaveDiver
02-21-2005, 09:48 PM
this sidemount topic seems addictive, but what the heck, i'll ask another one. I was sitting at CE getting gas and talking with bill and really liked his point about a sidemounter being the most versatile diver and that you could take a rig like a transpack and go anywhere and do any type of dive...doubles, singles and of course sidemount, and in places where they don't you diving doubles or doing techy stuff, you can grab to aluminum 80's, through some cam bands on them and go do a sidemount dive without anyone turning a head at the rental station. So my question, most sidemounters use a right and left valve, but if you were to do a dive such as the one described above, would you simply have one first stage facing away from you and the other facing towards you so you could have the valve handles to the outside? Would there be any trouble doing this? I can't think of anything, but it seems like any easy fix. Is there anyone out there diving this way on a regular basis? If it isn't that big of deal to flip flop a bottle so you can have two right handed valves working for a sidemount dive, perhaps it would be easier just to do it that way all the time and not worry about having left handed valves around. Just some thoughts.
-Matt
Moonfuzzy
02-21-2005, 10:11 PM
So my question, most sidemounters use a right and left valve, but if you were to do a dive such as the one described above, would you simply have one first stage facing away from you and the other facing towards you so you could have the valve handles to the outside? Would there be any trouble doing this? I can't think of anything, but it seems like any easy fix. Is there anyone out there diving this way on a regular basis? If it isn't that big of deal to flip flop a bottle so you can have two right handed valves working for a sidemount dive, perhaps it would be easier just to do it that way all the time and not worry about having left handed valves around.
Not that I have a lot of sidemount dives, but this is how my tanks are set up. They were used as singles by their previous owner, and I didn't see much need in replacing one valve. I just have one tank facing up and one down. It hasn't been a problem yet.
So my question, most sidemounters use a right and left valve, but if you were to do a dive such as the one described above, would you simply have one first stage facing away from you and the other facing towards you so you could have the valve handles to the outside? Would there be any trouble doing this?
It isn't normally a problem.
FWIW, I don't like the regulators hanging below the valves, it is too easy to bang one on the floor in tight spots. I also keep my valve knobs on the inside, rather than out, for the same reason. I have never had a problem reaching them on the inside.
When I dive 2 matching valves, I mount both regs up, and deal with one valve out, and one in.
CaptainSpeleo
02-22-2005, 09:17 AM
IowaCaveDiver:
If you're really serious about sidemount diving, set up your tanks with mirrored 300BAR DIN valves and not with the valve knob on the same side on both tanks where one valve faces down and one valve faces up.
Aluminum 80's are okay for doing the shallow or small caves, but you really want larger capacity low-pressure steel tanks for doing the deeper or large caves. Steel 85's and 95's that are over-pumped to 3300 PSI work good.
Steel 85's and 95's that are over-pumped to 3300 PSI work good.
Over-pumped? If I end up with 3300psi, I consider it a short fill.
Russell
Caver95
02-22-2005, 02:25 PM
Steel 85's and 95's that are over-pumped to 3300 PSI work good.
Over-pumped? If I end up with 3300psi, I consider it a short fill.
Russell
maybe he was meaning over pumped by 3300 psi, 5940 would be really sweet. I was talking to an old fat guy, he was telling me that he would fill shek's tanks to 5000psi. I was thinking holly sh$t. I like being in south florida at an OW shop, they fill my tanks to 2600 and act like they are doing me a favor.
I like being in south florida at an OW shop, they fill my tanks to 2600 and act like they are doing me a favor.
Yea, I love those "awsome fills" they provide... 2600 for you is what, 10 mins at 30ft? :wink:
IowaCaveDiver
02-22-2005, 03:14 PM
I've got mirrored valves and was taught to set up my sidemount rig in that fashion, I was just curious to see if the situation ever presented itself and I need to rent some tanks....lets say i head on vacation somewhere and find that I could do some more technical/cave dives, I could easily grab a pair of rentals and whip them into a sidemount setup in no time. Sounds like you all answered my question....can't wait to get back in the water!
-Matt
Caver95
02-22-2005, 03:19 PM
I like being in south florida at an OW shop, they fill my tanks to 2600 and act like they are doing me a favor.
Yea, I love those "awsome fills" they provide... 2600 for you is what, 10 mins at 30ft? :wink:
what are you talking about its like 25 my SAC rate is getting really good.
rchrds
02-26-2005, 07:49 PM
if you were to do a dive such as the one described above, would you simply have one first stage facing away from you and the other facing towards you so you could have the valve handles to the outside? -Matt
Doesnt matter where your valve handles are really- particularly for your scenario- Unlike FW (hey- you gonna be at the cavort?) I prefer my valves facing out- I've never even come close to rolling anything off (my valves dont touch anything in the water- out is another matter) and I find it difficult to reach the valves when they face in towards my body. Like everything else sidemount it is particular to your body and rig. But I do prefer to protect my 1st stages, which might be a bit anal (in the same way protecting the valve knob is) but most importantly, all my hoses are particular to the 1st stage facing up towards my back. When i got deployed to SOUTHCOM or the caribbean (those days are sadly over) I rolled my regs and tiny HID inside my transpac and wing shortways and strapped it all tight with two cambands that later went around the tanks (or tank if single.) and it easily fit along with my dry caving helmet in the bottom of my rucksack, where nobody checks. I got many a side caving trip in between workhours.
If you're really clever- you can get by with two set-up cambands, a weightbelt with three d rings and your shoulder bungee- nothing more. Dont fill the 80's past 2000 unless your real fat. Talk about a fast rig. Awesome for shallow stuff- but takes practice with the breathing control. Can you say constantly varying BC? :-D
caveman21
02-27-2005, 06:01 AM
and in places where they don't you diving doubles or doing techy stuff, you can grab to aluminum 80's, through some cam bands on them and go do a sidemount dive without anyone turning a head at the rental station. So my question, most sidemounters use a right and left valve, but if you were to do a dive such as the one described above, would you simply have one first stage facing away from you and the other facing towards you so you could have the valve handles to the outside? Would there be any trouble doing this?
-Matt
Knobs up first stages facing in when using a right and left valve.
One knob up one down first stages facing in when using right valves.
When diving this puts your right side tank valve down. Breathe the right one first.
Ron White
curtschu
02-28-2005, 12:44 PM
Ok I've been reading all the great info on this thread and I just looked at the Bill Rennaker version on his web site.
Several years ago (When Classic wing weren't "Classic")
I was putting together a side mount rig. It had two plates that attached to the waist belt for the lower tank clips with a but limiter strap and used a back bungee and chest limiter at the neck. All this seems very conventional. At the time DiveRite wings did not have the little loops on them so the Idea was to use a conventional "seatec" BC with the tank back plate removed. The BC has back and lower side inflation. The question now that I have described the rig, Is anyone still using this type of BC? Is there any inherent problem using this type? Any thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated.
The question now that I have described the rig, Is anyone still using this type of BC? Is there any inherent problem using this type? Any thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated.
The newer Seatech type BCs are very different than the one you probably had. They are designed to keep divers head up in the water, and aren't easy to convert to sidemount. There are a few people still using the older BCs, but it is hard to find an old BC that doesn't leak.
curtschu
02-28-2005, 01:17 PM
Yes I have two of the old ones a Med and a Large. I don't think the Med have enough lift even though it is more compact If I set this up again I'll use the large. Thanks
Over-pumped? If I end up with 3300psi, I consider it a short fill.
Russell
LOL! Know what you mean. Likewise, if I'm not at least single stage diving, I feel like I'm not getting my bottom time's worth.
caveman21
03-02-2005, 04:06 AM
Ok I've been reading all the great info on this thread and I just looked at the Bill Rennaker version on his web site.
Several years ago (When Classic wing weren't "Classic")
I was putting together a side mount rig. It had two plates that attached to the waist belt for the lower tank clips with a but limiter strap and used a back bungee and chest limiter at the neck. All this seems very conventional. At the time DiveRite wings did not have the little loops on them so the Idea was to use a conventional "seatec" BC with the tank back plate removed. The BC has back and lower side inflation. The question now that I have described the rig, Is anyone still using this type of BC? Is there any inherent problem using this type? Any thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated.
The last couple of sidemount rigs I've built used jacket style bc's modified for the job. I like the jackets better the simpler that they are, the less pockets and gadgets the better. The whole idea behind sidemount is to be "slick", and a bunch of big pockets, extra d-rings, straps, etc. all detract from the slickness.
The down side to using jacket style BC's is the available lift. This doesn't present a problem until you try floating bigger tanks. A bigger BC than you would normally use will provide you with additional lift, but at the cost of some slickness. Also, not all jackets have the bladders in the right place to provide proper lift, some being designed to keep you in a head up attitude. You have to shop around to get the right kind.
Ron White
curtschu
03-02-2005, 07:27 AM
That's why I horded these ols Seatecs. Very small pockets and that is it. Of course one has a small leak :cry: Anyone know a way to fix these bladderless BCs. Once I get the large one back from my Bro. (OW diver),I'll put the rig back together and take some picture and get some input from the group.
Duncan Price
03-04-2005, 09:07 AM
My tanks have right and left handed pillar valves and the position of the waist attachment point is also "handed" so that the first stage faces into the body. The on/off tap faces forwards being easy to reach and affords hook for my shock cord that hold the top of the cylinder. I can dive with two right handed takns, I'll just have the tap facing backwards so that the first stage is still facing into the body. The best valves are the straight up/down traditional pillar valves which can be set up left or right.
BTW although I dive non-handed regulators (Poseidons) the hose routing on them makes the first stage handed though this is of course easy to swap.
Do'nt often wear a BC - but when I do its either a horse collar (easy to transoprt to a sump) or stabilser jacket (more comfortable and more lift).
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