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Attchoum
06-04-2009, 09:18 PM
Hello everyone

It's been few day that people ask about sidemount in dry suit and whit steel tank so i decided to post about my dive of today.

I took my sidemount class whit Steve when I was in Mexico last january. I was living there so I got plenny chance to go diving. I log 30 sidemount dive in 3 month. Not bad I think.

Unfortunatly, for multiple reason I had to come back to Canada for the summer and since middle of may I didn't dive cave or sidemount configuration. Most of the time, I was teaching PADI course:smt100

Last weekend, someone show me the entrance of a old underground mine that is now completly flood. Since the mine entrance is only accessible by boat and it's not well know position I think no one never dive there before.

I what to go explore that mine, but before I need to get use to many thing. That why I whent to open water quarry today.

First, in Mexico we use only alu tank. I just buy two set of LP 80 from PST. They are a little shorter so they fit better on my side. The are way heavier so I dont need lot of weight. the are always negative even when they are near empty so I dont have to move the attachement point like when I use alu tank, it's very convinient. Im using a razor harness and I have to say the harness is perfect for both alu and steel tank. I was suprise how easy it was to change tank configuration. One of the big adventage of sidemount, and specialy that harness, is the ability to turn in any direction. Whit alu tank, the tank position is not important they are not dragging you on a side or on the back. Heavy steel then to do that. It's harder to stay motionless on the side or on the back. Possible but harder.

Then come the moment where I try to superman one tank. Work great whit the right tank in front of me and left still attach. It was a real catastrophe when I unclip my left one to put them both in front. they are just to heavy and they drag me head down during the time my dry feet go up. Very bad experience. It was so easy to do that whit alu tank, I now realize why Steve told us to not put lead on the tank.

Second, I wanted to try my sidemount gear whit heavy underwear in my dry suit. In mexico I was using nearly nothing under my dry and no wing. Here I have to use a 400g underwear whitch reduce my hability but it's still good enouf.

The real problem is the stupid dry glove. On my razor harness I put the Steve D ring upgrade. Basicly, the attachement point on the back of my harness are some really low profil D ring. Whit bare hand catching the ring to snap the tank is easy but whit my glove I dont feel it, so I need to guess where is the ring. I just call one of my friend and we gonna weld the d ring at 90 degree, it's gonna solve my trouble.

I build myself a bat wing to compensated the heavy steel tank, but I drop my tank on the valve part just before my dive. I did the dive whit my dry only. It's working good but I have to put extra air in my dry and I dont like that. Next time for the bat wing training.

That's it for today, everything was good but I still need some more practice whit my clumsy dry glove. Tie off are difficult to do when you dont feel the line.

I can garantie, dry suit and steel tank still work great whit the razor harness.

Sorry for the increadible amount of mistake, not easy to write in english for a french canadien.

If everything go well, next time I write about that old mine.

Good night
Etienne

SuPrBuGmAn
06-04-2009, 09:38 PM
Thanks for the write up, no issues with reading it here - all was legible.

I'm wondering how the setup would work with heavier steels, as LP80s are pretty friggin light(for steels).

Attchoum
06-04-2009, 09:49 PM
it's a very good question. I dont think it's gonna be confortable since everytime you gonna move the tank will bring you on the heavier part. as long you gonna be in a flat position, you gonna be fine, but on a 60 degree body angle on the side or head down, the tank will make you roll.

I have a twin set of worthington 100 that I just break for open water course. Next time I will bring them to try it.

Etienne

loquat149
06-05-2009, 08:20 AM
What did you use for a wing and how was it attached?

Dave

DaveP
06-05-2009, 09:19 AM
Thanks for the post.

You said:
"I can garantie, dry suit and steel tank still work great whit the razor harness."

But you also said:
"I did the dive whit my dry only. It's working good but I have to put extra air in my dry and I dont like that."

Sounds like the extra air in the drysuit did not work that well?

Swede
06-05-2009, 10:38 AM
Thanks for the post.

You said:
"I can garantie, dry suit and steel tank still work great whit the razor harness."

But you also said:
"I did the dive whit my dry only. It's working good but I have to put extra air in my dry and I dont like that."

Sounds like the extra air in the drysuit did not work that well?


I guess that it al depend on how you like to dive. Heavy steel tanks and just a drysuit, than you need to put more air in the suit. But if you don’t like that you need some kind of BC.

It’s just how comfortable you are with a lot of air in the suit or not. I use to dive with less air, but now I put more in the suit… I stay worm much longer that way.

Attchoum
06-05-2009, 04:09 PM
I plan to dive whit a bat wing like steve explain in other post, but I break it just before the dive. next time

It is possible to dive only dry and steel tank but i would recommend to take any bc whit you. I did it whitout problem, but it was not as confortable. Steve is usuing a bat wing, Luxrok use a open water bc on top of is harness and I know you can use a normal wing. So whatever fit to you gonna work no problem.

Etienne

Luxrok
06-07-2009, 12:13 AM
Etienne, your my hero! What is up with our trip to the Empress? I haven't done any diving since I left. It is truly depressing. I am glad you are staying on top of the sidemount stuff. And I can't wait to see you agian.

You get your CCR yet?

Hans

Attchoum
06-07-2009, 06:01 AM
I got some administration probleme for the empress trip. Actuly gouvernement dont like foreigner to come dive the empress. I need to find a instructor that are willing to sign you a permit whitout knowing you. it's not gonna be a problem.

ccr = 20 july

Come dive whit me...
Small weekend of diving in Quebec
I pay the BBQ

etienne

ae3753
06-10-2009, 11:51 AM
Razor harness, BAT wing (3L CamelBak), drysuit and LP80s is my current cold water sidemount rig as well.

I wrote a more detailed dive report on sidemount in cold water (http://www.deepseasherpa.com/blog/dive-report/friday-april-17-2009-first-cold-water-sidemount-dives/), but my experiences are very similar.

Steel tanks, being negative, act as weight ballasts on the side of the body. This promotes horizontal trim, but when I rotate around the axis, the tanks would snap me back horizontally. I personally miss the rotational freedom that the AL80s provide.

Dry gloves and the Razor harness' low profile D-rings don't mix. I knew this before, but I had to try anyways. I'll just switch then out to regular D-rings. No need for fixed D-rings.

At the beginning of the dive, I need air in the BC. I don't like to compensate that much gas with my drysuit. It leads to too much puffiness and too much instability.

Regarding the BC, the CamelBak was positioned horizontally across the small of my back. My first version was attached to 2" nylon belt. However, this was not a good idea since I couldn't get my version of the BAT wing to lay flat. Poor design on my part. I've now converted to bungee belt, similar to Steve's version, and this should be much better.

shiney
06-10-2009, 01:13 PM
I got some administration probleme for the empress trip. Actuly gouvernement dont like foreigner to come dive the empress. I need to find a instructor that are willing to sign you a permit whitout knowing you. it's not gonna be a problem.
........

etienne

Salut Etienne,

I should be able to help you with the permit if you are having problems as I am a FQAS moniteurs mandataire. Feel free to e-mail me at scott(at)brokenbones.ca or send me a PM. No point bringing up silly local Quebec regulations on this board.

I am very interested in checking out the razor and maybe we can talk about that sitet of yours and exchange some other sites. Have you dove backmine in Gatineau?

Attchoum
06-11-2009, 08:19 AM
not yet. backmine is really far away from quebec and some people told me it's boring...

I contact you in private as soon as i got a minute.

JDostal
06-12-2009, 08:03 AM
I dive mostly in cold water and have similar experiences to you.

You want the d-rings big for sure to make dealing w/ the dry gloves easier. You do get used to the weight of the steels... I sidemount E8-130's and you don't even notice them eventually.

Regarding the superman with the tanks, it is is a pain! But if you are in big enough passage that hitting the floor or trying to float with tanks in front of you is a concern you shouldn't have to unclip your tanks. At least that has been our approach.

Hopefully your mine turns into something! Mines are just about all we have where in Wisconsin so I do a lot of cave diving in them and it is pretty enjoyable.

standingbear56
07-01-2009, 04:58 PM
Just got my Razor Harness, can't wait to get it togther. Since I dive in the North East with a Drysuit and LP 95's, hopefully I'll be able to contribute to the Cold Water SM experiences. Right now I'm using a modified Nomad, so I should be able to give a direct comparison of the Razor vs the Nomad under these conditions, using the LP 95s on each.
Hope to be able to post soon.
Cheers,
George

Arnold Mesiser
07-01-2009, 06:00 PM
Just got my Razor Harness, can't wait to get it togther. Since I dive in the North East with a Drysuit and LP 95's, hopefully I'll be able to contribute to the Cold Water SM experiences. Right now I'm using a modified Nomad, so I should be able to give a direct comparison of the Razor vs the Nomad under these conditions, using the LP 95s on each.
Hope to be able to post soon.
Cheers,
George


Sump diver George??

standingbear56
07-02-2009, 03:49 PM
No not a sump diver. Just a plain ol OW instructor and wreck diver. Started in SM due to a back injury. Can't take the weight of twins on my back anymore. Of course, since I've dove in the Hudson, perhapse I'm a bit of a toxic diver :<) I origionally came to CDF for info on sidemount. Plan on taking an intro to cave course and mabe a full cave course at some point when I can get enough time to learn it right.
Catch ya,
George