Hope with SM

[alias]

In the light of recent nice SM discussions it’s time to start crawling out of the deep dark hole I have been cowering for the beginning of the year. I have several questions pending but would like to start with how hard will it be to continue cave training when I need to swap from BM to SM in the middle of “basic” training? I am Intro diver and have arrived to that point in back mount but want to continue to App/Full in SM? Will this be a big issue with instructors (finding a willing one)?

Also, will this be a no-no or huge political issue because naturally I would need to practice in SM before continuing my training, also in caves. I have not dived in SM before, so I would like to dive on Intro level in SM – only after OW practice of course. (SM courses per se seem pretty much oriented towards stuff that I would not be doing at this level. I have no interest in putting myself in tight places at this point.)

My situation is the common sucky one: My back had to be operated on. If I am to make dives where I need to don more than one tank for the next year or so, I really should not be ramming them on my back. I've considered SM before but I think now's the time to act. Shore dives – rather than dives from pitching boats with nasty ladders - will be very much on menu for next year. I am hoping those shore dives will include a lot of cave dives too. I might have to delay my courses but I sure hope whole of 2009 won't suck, and I will get into the caves come winter and more survivable Florida weather…

[phillip1]

I think that training with doubles first is the way to go but only as a means of learning a different gear configuration and nothing more than that.
For example in the UK the CDG guys dive only SM and therefore do not train in doubles, they are some of the most experienced cave/sump divers in the world and most of them probably do not even know how to dive doubles and it makes absolutely no difference at all.
I cannot think of any situation were you could not dive in SM but I can think of many were doubles would be a real hassle or not possible at all.
Having said that I think that learning to dive doubles is a real plus but if you have back problems forget it and do your training in SM, I think that you will find diving SM is actually easier than doubles if you have not dived either systems before, and it makes no real difference to know how to dive doubles if you don't plan on diving that way.

I think (not 100% sure) that you can do all your training in SM if you want to, there is nothing (again I think) that states that you have to be in BM configuration to do you training, just that you need double tanks. two regs ec..
Find an instructor that dives SM and who is willing to train you that way, I guarantee that you will find SM to be very easy and super comfortable.
It feels more comfortable in SM with two al80's than in BM with one.

[alias]

Let me clarify a little...

I have liked BM very much (dived BM since 2007). I would not change at this point if it was not for my back. This is not a logical point to change. However, I want to make dives that require redundancy now, too.

I have only tried SM once. It felt just as natural as BM if not more so. On the first go, with both BM and SM rigs I was thrown in the water in somebody else's gear that was not configured for me. SM felt like the chest was cluttered but by the third fin kick everything felt extremely fluent and effortless. I might have too high hopes how easily the transition will go but I hope I will like it at least as much as I like diving BM.

[SuPrBuGmAn]

If you know you're gonna be diving sidemount, there's no reason to dive another setup. Go ahead and get dive time in what you'll be diving in, and take the courses in the same setup you'll be diving in. There's no sense in taking courses, and drilling, in a setup that won't be with you after the course. Go ahead and start getting comfortable in the SM rig and take the course in it, after you've gotten comfortable.

There's plenty of instructors out there that will teach you in SM configuration.

[NorthWoodsDiver]

Probably the only agencies who wouldn't allow to to dive SM for a class would be UTD or GUE but even then you may be able to if you find the right instructor...

[phillip1]

Let me clarify a little...

I have liked BM very much (dived BM since 2007). I would not change at this point if it was not for my back. This is not a logical point to change. However, I want to make dives that require redundancy now, too.

I have only tried SM once. It felt just as natural as BM if not more so. On the first go, with both BM and SM rigs I was thrown in the water in somebody else's gear that was not configured for me. SM felt like the chest was cluttered but by the third fin kick everything felt extremely fluent and effortless. I might have too high hopes how easily the transition will go but I hope I will like it at least as much as I like diving BM.

I think that you might like it more than BM. And the back problem you have is a very good and logical reason to change to SM.

[saturation]

I couldn't agree more with what others have said. Sidemount is at least, a key to folks with back issues who pursue cave diving and want to lighten the load.

I personally do not sidemount, but intend to in the future. I am already getting myself into tight spaces on back mount without issue, as I am not a large person.

[battles2a5]

If you are a competent diver, transitioning to SM isn't a big deal. Give yourself enough time to develop muscle memory with the new rig, practice all your drills and get comfortable stowing everything and you should be good to go.

[alias]

I certainly agree that wrecked back is good enough reason. I guess I am worrying too much that scuba police will jump me for diving in SM without having been trained to dive caves in that configuration!

I sneak in my first gear question here. Of course there is absolutely nobody locally who dives SM here (heck we don’t even have a dealer for like, Dive Rite..), so the most local people for show-and-tell are in Ontario (4hr drive) for me. Unfortunately, I am allowed to drive max 5 miles at one go at the moment…

I’ve read about Nomad because I think that’s the way I am going. I have an old, basically unused TransPac. However, have I understood it correct that with SM you drop the harness fairly low when you wear it, more to the hips rather than waist? My TransPac, old size M/L, is a perfect wetsuit fit but I think it will not be suitable to start building on. It would be every snug with drysuit and the harness will definitely not fall onto my hips even when stretched to furthest point.

[Danseur]

It took me 2 days with a good teacher (Brian Kakuk!) to make a reasonable transition from BM to SM. He also dives both the Armadillo and the Nomad and could clue you in about the differences there as well.

With flights being cheap, consider paying him a visit in Abaco, Bahamas. Best trip I ever made.... Brian is awesome, and the caves are just sick! Unreal.....

[Cleavitt]

I’ve read about Nomad because I think that’s the way I am going. I have an old, basically unused TransPac. However, have I understood it correct that with SM you drop the harness fairly low when you wear it, more to the hips rather than waist? My TransPac, old size M/L, is a perfect wetsuit fit but I think it will not be suitable to start building on. It would be every snug with drysuit and the harness will definitely not fall onto my hips even when stretched to furthest point.

The waist belt on the TransPac should still be around your waist, not your hips. You'll want a wing that shifts more of the lift towards your hips in sidemount because the center of gravity is lower, but the fitting of the harness isn't any different than backmount as far as I know. The Nomad wing is designed for this. Since you already have a TransPac harness that fits you I would add a Nomad wing and buttplate and give it a try.

[LisaN]

Hello, I am the buddy of this thread's OP and I just wanted to say that this is not fair. After we swapped to doubles in 2007 I thought I was done spending money of dive gear! :roll:

so now with alias' wonky back issue... naturally I can't let her switch to SM alone, right?? :D

[JimC]

Once you get cleared to drive a bit further I am sure any of us up here in Ottawa would gladdly get you pointed in the right direction.

[sskasser]

Hello, I am the buddy of this thread's OP and I just wanted to say that this is not fair. After we swapped to doubles in 2007 I thought I was done spending money of dive gear! :roll:

so now with alias' wonky back issue... naturally I can't let her switch to SM alone, right?? :D

Welcome to the madness, Lisa! :smt081

[Slüdge]

After we swapped to doubles in 2007 I thought I was done spending money on dive gear!

I'm sorry, you'll have to help me out here. I'm not familiar with the concept of "done spending money on dive gear." :smt102

[MORGAN]

I'm sorry, you'll have to help me out here. I'm not familiar with the concept of "done spending money on dive gear." :smt102

Yup - there's an oxymoronic concept right there!

Mike

[Cleavitt]

... naturally I can't let her switch to SM alone, right?? :D

That little detail probably makes my previous advice invalid. Somehow I didn't realize that alias was a woman. I should have known with all the talk about hips and such. Anyway, I'm of no help here so I'll just say 'good luck' and yes you both have to dive SM now. :yawinkle:

[alias]

That little detail probably makes my previous advice invalid. Somehow I didn't realize that alias was a woman. I should have known with all the talk about hips and such. Anyway, I'm of no help here so I'll just say 'good luck' and yes you both have to dive SM now. :yawinkle:

Oh come on, the hipstyle system cannot be that weirded out on women ;) I am about safe to contort myself into the drysuit now, so I will try the TransPac on and see if I think it’s too tight – I think it will be with thick undies. I was concerned about the new Nomad vs the old version though (I have not seen the new) as it would appear that the new one might have less adjustment options (for weird-bodied women, for example…)

Thanks Jim. I was hoping to line up the Ottawa crowd, so maybe someone’s schedules would work with us for some summer weekends. I know some of you (…) have a bit more extreme rigs for extreme needs but no doubt would have great pointers for buddy diving SM’ers too. My recovery has been going well, and I am hoping that rehab gets me in water in July when St Lawrence is nice and warm. I have a feeling my bud will follow my adventure a little, and in no time notice how much nicer it is to carry (my) tanks in the water, and want to try the rig. Luckily we pretty much fit same harness size at least, so she does not need to spend the money before trying…

[LisaN]

I guess you're all correct about it and I should just accept the eternal wallet-draining nature of diving... I recall when I first got into diving I claimed I would never need a drysuit.... then after I got the drysuit I was sure I would never dive doubles... then after transitioning to doubles there was no way I would need a can light......................... oh, never mind!!! :confused:

quick question, (sorry if already asked on another thread but I didn't see it)- whats the difference with the new DR Nomad wing that came out this year aside from greater lift (60# vs 51#)?

Do you need that much more lift diving SM compared to BM? I think my doubles wing has around 45 which seems perfectly adequate.

[DogDiver]

I've seen the new DR Nomad....it has been nicknamed the "Normadillo"...lol I'll stick with my origional nomad....Ken

[NorthWoodsDiver]

I've seen the new DR Nomad....it has been nicknamed the "Normadillo"...lol I'll stick with my origional nomad....Ken

That isn't fair, I have spent a good deal of money and time taking my 2008 nomad and cutting it up and adding components from an armadillo to actually make what I have called a "normadillo". I should have trademarked it I guess. Of course I have a different bungee system then both rigs (like what I have seen in Steve's sidemount clips) so I should probably marry all three names together into one...

Razor +Nomad + Armadillo =??

[LisaN]

Razmadillo?