knot tieing/tank attachment question

[scblade27]

I should probably know this by now, but I am still learning. I am trying to attach the lower snap on my sidemount tank to a camband using cave line. If someone could please explain how this is effectively done, I would appreciate it.

Last night I tried weaving a slide to the buckle and feeding the line up through the loop it makes, then tighten it down. It seems like after holding the weight of the tanks for a while the line and knot would work its way out. I also tried just to tie the line around the cam band, but I guess my knot skills are not so good. That knot would let loose after a while under the weight of the tanks.

Summary:
-Dont want to use stage straps
-Want to use cave line to attach to the snap at lower attachment point
-Stuck at this point

[chimie007]

I'm using a small line (2mm??) that I got a climbing store. IMHO Cave line is too small for this application.

As for attaching it. I added a triglide to the cam strap and just make a loop with the 2mm line going between the cam trap and triglide and joining the bolt snap. I made one loop with a single knot and then used the two ends to make another loop and a double knot. I glued (crazy/super glue) the knot when I was done. It has been 1.5 year and no problem. I just did the same on another set of SM tanks.

Here is a pic. That's all I have on my computer right now. Not the best but you'll understand


http://lh6.ggpht.com/_Q1MXfO7EEUw/SdS7zxBmKtI/AAAAAAAADv0/4ADCLOoKPjw/s800/boltsnap.jpg

[sskasser]

I use something similar to Raphael, except instead of line, I'm using bungee cord. It gives "just a little" to make clipping in a bit easier, yet still holds the tanks up nice and tight (thanks to Tegg for this idea, and the bungee!)

[FW]

I'm using a small line (2mm??) that I got a climbing store. IMHO Cave line is too small for this application.
It looks like 4mm to me, the same size as goldline.

[chimie007]

It looks like 4mm to me, the same size as goldline.

Ya.. you are probably right...

So good news for scblade27.... just help yourself to a piece of the gold line in some cave :smt120

[scblade27]

I'm sure the line at Peacock could stand to be shortened just a little bit :yawinkle:

Any suggestions as to where one would find this stuff in the central Florida area?

[JahJahwarrior]

Ya.. you are probably right...

So good news for scblade27.... just help yourself to a piece of the gold line in some cave :smt120

Alright, fess up! Who stole the line past the Heinkel to build their sidemount rig???





(i'm assuming the normal 3/16" rope I've used on stage bottles is seen as inferior to the "climbing rope" is due to the fact that the climbing rope has the core and a sheath, to better withstand wear? )

[chimie007]

I'm sure the line at Peacock could stand to be shortened just a little bit :yawinkle:

Any suggestions as to where one would find this stuff in the central Florida area?

Call these guys (or any outdoor/hiking store) and ask if they have accessory cord by the foot. As FW said, 4mm might be the ticket. This stuff is cheap... Boat store might even have some too.

TravelCountry.com

1101 E Altamonte Drive
Altamonte Springs, FL 32701

(407) 831-0777 x5‎
(800) 643-3629‎

[scblade27]

Perfect, thanks.

[NorthWoodsDiver]

use this website for help with the knots:

http://www.animatedknots.com/indexclimbing.php?LogoImage=LogoGrog.jpg&Website=www.animatedknots.com

I do it a weird way but its based on a tip I learned from Steve B. on a thread.

take a piece of line, I used gold line, 16-18 inches long. If you use thicker line go with 18" and thinner line use 16". It's works out to be a perfect amount but it seems impossible at first.

-run your snap onto the line

-turn the line into a continuous loop buy tying a double fisherman's knots in the ends. leave as little at possible for tail after the knots.

-position the fisherman's knots half way from one end and tie a figure 8 knot with the snap in it. this one isn't to hard but the small amount of line makes it tricky.

-on the opposite end tie another figure 8 knot and leave about 2 inches of line between the 2 figure 8's for the cam strap. this second loop is a backup in case you should have to cut the primary snap free and use a double ended bolt snap to resecure your sidemount tank.

if done properly that double fisherman's knot will be hidden under the cam band and you will have two tiny loops sticking out from each side of the strap, one loop of course will have a bolt snap on it.

I would post a pic but I dont have a camera.

hope that helps. T

[sskasser]

Call these guys (or any outdoor/hiking store) and ask if they have accessory cord by the foot. As FW said, 4mm might be the ticket. This stuff is cheap... Boat store might even have some too.

TravelCountry.com

1101 E Altamonte Drive
Altamonte Springs, FL 32701

(407) 831-0777 x5‎
(800) 643-3629‎


Kevin,
They've got all kinds of cool stuff in that store! Beware!!! Danger! Danger!

[scblade27]

Its one of "those" stores. Walk in wanting $10 worth of stuff, end up with a new kayak and $1000 worth of accessories. Thanks for the tip, I may send the wife to avoid the temptation since she works pretty close to there.

[skip]

I use cord from Lowe's. comes in a package, braided, green, yellow or blue, about $5.00 for the package of 25 feet. I also use it for stages, etc.

-skip

[NorthWoodsDiver]

550 parachute cord would probably work good too.

[scblade27]

Picked up some 4mm accessory chord at that outdoors shop yesterday. Its $.70/meter and seems to be really good stuff. Its a little tough to manipulate being so thick, but so far seems to get the job done.

[Brian Kakuk]

I've been using this system for the last two years with good success. I prefer suicide clips, but any bolt snap can be used in the same fashion. I use 1/4" accessory cord with a single fisherman's knot on the clip itself, then a double stopper knot at the other end. Spacing is 2 inches to accommodate a cam strap. I just slide the entire thing through a belt slide loop on the cam strap. The knots will get smaller and lower profile with time and strain. The setup I use on my current rig is two years old with no significant chaffing. I prefer to use a heaftier line in case I need to stand up and walk with the rig, but I seldom do this.

Each Cam strap is set up as right and left with the with the cam buckles on the top of the cylinder and outboard of my body while laying horizontal. Clips come off the top of the strap rather than the bottom to prevent twisting of the cylinder on the body. The length of the clip can be adjusted to preference, but I prefer the length to be a 1/4" to 1/2" longer than the width of my hand so I am sure I can get in between the tank any my body for removal, replacement.
Hope this helps.

Brian

[scblade27]

Thanks Brian. Great explanation.

[DeWayne]

When using cam bands I pretty much did it the same way as Brian K, I just tied mine through slides. 2mm cord works great, 4 is a bit easier to work with. Form your loop around the the web strap with a double grapevine and it won't go anywhere.

My favorite was always just a simple hose clamp with taco and small D (use 2 clamps/tacos with a larger 2in D for larger cylinders) then just clip them using Kong Mini-Biners.

[SMB]

In my experience cam bands have a tendency to get caught up in the line or small cave especially when removing and replacing tanks to go through restrictions.
Tanks are pretty clean and streamlined and adding cam bands with buckles is just extra crap that tends to get in the way.
Also they have a tendency to come open or break at the worst possible time and can slip or move affecting trim and bouyancy and tank position.

Check out the bolt snap solution I am currently using (picture below).
This configuration is simple, clean, secure and streamlined.
Having tried many other solutions over the years I have found this to work the best so far.
It is quick and easy to set up or change between tanks and is inexpensive too.

When donning or doffing the tanks the middle finger goes through the loop of the bolt snap to support the weight of the tank the thumb opens the bolt snap and the index finger is used to reference the D ring on the harness.

While diving it is usually not necesary to completely remove sm tanks.
Partial removal gives more control since there is still 1 point of attachment.
This can be achieved by unclipping the bolt snap at the bottom of the tank but leaving the top sm bungee in place.
The tank is pivoted through 180deg to the front and is again controlled with the middle finger through the loop of the bolt snap.
This can obviously be done simultaneoulsy with both tanks if required.
Also if necessary both tanks can be held and controlled with just one hand using the finger and thumb of one hand through the 2 bolt snap loops leaving the other hand free to reference the line or equalise or adjust buoyancy etc.

Although it can't be seen in the photo below I also set up my tanks with 2 loops of inner tube or elastomeric band.
One of which is positioned just above the ss radiator clamp.
This has several uses.

All potential failures of the lower attachment point are addressed with this inner tube and by carrying a ss double ender in my pouch.

The bolt snap can fail either open or closed and there is a very small possibility that the worm gear radiator clamp could fail.

If the bolt snap fails in the open position then it is cut free so that it cannot line trap you and placed in your pouch. The double ender is clipped to the inner tube and then clipped off to the harness d ring.

If the snap bolt fails closed and the tank needs to be removed then the bolt snap is cut free and the double ender is used to reattach it as above when necessary. The failed bolt snap will remain on the harness d ring.

If the ss worm gear radiator clamp should fail then again the double ender can be clipped to the inner tube which can be pulled down the tank to the ideal position and then clipped off to the harness d ring.

In a gas sharing situation if I am passing off a tank to another sm diver of a different physical size then the rear bolt snap attachment point may be to low or too high for them to use.
This problem is solved by clipping the double ender to the inner tube and moving it to the ideal position.

If I am no mounting the tanks the ss bolt snap is clipped off to the inner tube to stop it dangling and getting caught up.
Again the same procedure if butt mounting one of my tanks.

[FW]

In my experience cam bands have a tendency to get caught up in the line or small cave especially when removing and replacing tanks to go through restrictions.
http://www.cavediver.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1152&stc=1&d=1239430048
I like that better than what I use. I still use caribiners.. The only thing I would do different is to use two worm clamps per tank. I have had single clamps fail, and had a tank hanging from the bungee. With big tanks, it causes you to roll over, not much fun at 140'!

[SMB]

I like that better than what I use. I still use caribiners.. The only thing I would do different is to use two worm clamps per tank. I have had single clamps fail, and had a tank hanging from the bungee. With big tanks, it causes you to roll over, not much fun at 140'!

Hi Forrest,
Not too much of a problem with the light AL80's I dive most of the time down here in Mexico :smt003
Although I have tried it with heavier steel tanks too just for training purposes and never in anger and it worked fine I just had to clip off further back to compensate for the weight of the tank stretching the inner tube a bit.
I actually stopped using inner tube a year or so ago and now use the Dive Rite Elastomeric bands which work much better in my opinion, last longer and are easier to grab and stuff hoses under etc.
They dont roll up on the tanks or slide around and stretch less.
Only downside is that they cost more (still pretty cheap though) than the inner tube that I used to scrounge for free from side of the highway.
Trouble was that they were in short supply even down here since everyone is using tubeless tires these days :(
Also tried bungee cord and surgical tubing years ago diving in the UK and did not really like either as they roll around on the tanks too much.